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What to use when we stop using Final Cut
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Walter S,
Every time anyone points out the 800 pound gorilla in the room (either here, Business and Marketing, or Art of Edit) of low rates, and over-saturation of the workforce, somebody pipes up with how their talent and story telling skills are going to stop this from happening.
My point is simply all those businesses that cater to the higher end market of story tellers are dropping out of business for what seems to be lack of demand. And the trend seems to be towards cheap run ‘n gun productions where story telling isn’t at a premium. So I see that argument as something of a straw man, and not any disrespect for anyone’s skills.
It just doesn’t seem like there is enough demand for ‘story telling’ to support a million plus editors at a traditional wage.
I get that Bob Z is super busy. But as you point out, he is busy selling/installing gear, not editing. Walter B, Shane, David and the rest of the big guns have plenty of work. How about the rest of the million plus FCP users? Is everybody getting as much work as they want? Getting the best rate?
Great debate, no doubt. Would make a better panel discussion. The dynamic of the thread doesn’t convey the true spirit of this discussion.Scott Sheriff
Director
https://www.sstdigitalmedia.comI have a system, it has stuff in it, and stuff hooked to it. I have a camera, it can record stuff. I read the manuals, and know how to use this stuff and lots of other stuff too.
You should be suitably impressed… -
[Scott Sheriff] “Every time anyone points out the 800 pound gorilla in the room (either here, Business and Marketing, or Art of Edit) of low rates, and over-saturation of the workforce, somebody pipes up with how their talent and story telling skills are going to stop this from happening.”
Across the entire industry, certainly not — but individually, yes. And I don’t think it’s just about talent. I think a lot of amazingly talented people are suffering for a lack of business or marketing skill.
I am not saying there’s a lot of room at the top. I am saying that if someone wants to avoid being pulled down by an over-saturated workforce, they can’t be doing the same exact thing that everyone else is. Differentiation is key.
[Scott Sheriff] “It just doesn’t seem like there is enough demand for ‘story telling’ to support a million plus editors at a traditional wage.”
Agreed.
[Scott Sheriff] “I get that Bob Z is super busy. But as you point out, he is busy selling/installing gear, not editing.”
To people who will use it to edit. $20,000 for infrastructure wasn’t outrageous a few years ago, but in today’s world of iMac editors, if it helps you serve your clients better and you can afford it, you are busy and charging appropriately.
[Scott Sheriff] “Walter B, Shane, David and the rest of the big guns have plenty of work. How about the rest of the million plus FCP users? Is everybody getting as much work as they want Getting the best rate?”
Of course not everyone will get all the work they want at the best rate. You’re right that competition is lowering rates overall and that the barriers to entry are practically non-existent.
What are we really debating? Whether it’s worth staying in this industry? I accept all your observations about the changes we’re seeing. I’m just suggesting that there is still a market for good work at reasonable rates, and that the organizations doing that work and thriving look a lot different today than they would have a few years ago.
If a business is growing, I think it’s due to some combination of talent, business savvy, hard work, and luck. The same applies if a business is shrinking. You can’t pin it all on external, “industry” factors.
Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog – What I’m thinking when my workstation’s thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events -
[Walter Soyka] “I don’t mean to come off as a Pollyanna about this industry. I understand that it’s changing very, very fast; I understand it’s increasingly hard to be premium; I see how all this is affecting people’s livelihoods. We have to continually change with the industry. We have to constantly grow our skills sets to stay ahead of new talent. We have to practice better business fundamentals. We have to understand where we can add value, and find and win the clients that can benefit from and pay for it…”
Walter,
There are times when analysis ceases to be helpful, and when friends just want their friends to be, well, friendly. Sometimes around here it seems we all forget that from time to time, especially when our friends express concerns, or they’re worried, or maybe even if they blurt out an honest complaint.
In any case, a friend of mine just sent me the following ode to friendship, which I felt compelled to share with you… 🙂
1. When you are sad ~ I will help you get drunk and plot revenge against the sorry bastard who made you sad.
2. When you are blue ~ I will try to dislodge whatever is choking you.
3. When you smile ~ I will know you are thinking of something that I would probably want to be involved in.
4. When you are scared ~ I will rag on you about it every chance I get until you’re NOT.
5. When you are worried ~ I will tell you horrible stories about how much worse it could be until you quit whining.
6.. When you are confused ~ I will try to use only little words.
7. When you are sick ~ Stay the hell away from me until you are well again. I don’t want whatever you have.
8. When you fall ~ I will laugh at your clumsy ass, but I’ll help you up.
9. This is my oath ~ I pledge it to the end. ‘Why?’ you may ask ~ because you are my friend.
Friendship is like peeing your pants, everyone can see it, but only you can feel the true warmth.
David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles
https://www.drwfilms.comPOST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™
A forum host of Creative COW’s Business & Marketing and Apple Final Cut Pro forums. Formerly host of the Apple Final Cut Basics, Indie Film & Documentary, and Film History & Appreciations forums.
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Fair enough, David. Looking at this thread, it seems like 1, 2, 4, 5 and 6 apply — so let’s start drinking while we rag on each other, telling horrible stories with little words while we try to dislodge the little bits of Apple caught in our throats.
Happy NAB and best wishes to all.
Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog – What I’m thinking when my workstation’s thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events -
To all my colleagues:
Great discussion, with as much diversity as the industry itself.
I wish us all much good fortune despite my never ending doom and gloom attitude.
Just remember this debate started over not letting the tool define who you are as an editor. And I doesn’t matter what Apple, Avid or any vendor does. If you’re an editor today, you’ll still be one tomorrow.Scott Sheriff
Director
https://www.sstdigitalmedia.comI have a system, it has stuff in it, and stuff hooked to it. I have a camera, it can record stuff. I read the manuals, and know how to use this stuff and lots of other stuff too.
You should be suitably impressed… -
[Scott Sheriff] “If you’re an editor today, you’ll still be one tomorrow.”
…..you just might not get paid for it tomorrow.
-mattyc
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[Matt Callac] “…..you just might not get paid for it tomorrow.
“Brilliant Matt!!!
Give the man a prize…
David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles
https://www.drwfilms.comPOST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™
A forum host of Creative COW’s Business & Marketing and Apple Final Cut Pro forums. Formerly host of the Apple Final Cut Basics, Indie Film & Documentary, and Film History & Appreciations forums.
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The title had me expecting the opposite, but this has been the least hysterical FC conversation I’ve seen recently.
A few (probably unnecessary) points:
Apple have obviously not lost interest in this market — they wouldn’t be making this much of a fuss if this was a dying product…
We’ve seen it described by people we know as “awesome” and jaw-dropping” — it’s certainly impressive to certain eyes…
If you’re worried those eyes are not yours, you’d have to be inclined to believe Apple have made an uncharacteristic misjudgement. They’ve chosen to premiere this at NAB. Do you think they’d do that for a product shifting massively away from the professional and towards the consumer?
I think there’s more reason to be opti- than pessi-mistic.
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Sweet, I’ve always wanted a digital plush cow.
-mattyc
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[Rafael Amador] “Would be a perfect moment to retire from my professional video activities (28 years in enough) and push my farm project.”
Rafael, I am doing both. My 40 acre farm has cows and sheep, ducks, chickens, fruit trees and a big veggie garden. Meanwhile my picture and sound post activities go on in a strawbale studio. Try to do both as farming is too hard a way to make a living, but a great subsistence lifestyle.
When I hear editors complaining about making a living and compare it to the lot of farmers who are absolutely essential to the community, I have to smile.
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