what is 60p for anyway?

[Walter Biscardi]

You can convert 60p (59.94) to 29.97 for broadcast seamlessly. And 720/59.94 is also an accepted delivery format for some networks.

We edit all our 720p material in 59.94 and then convert it to either 1080i/29.97 or 525/29.97 for delivery depending on what the network specs are.

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Biscardi Creative Media
HD and SD Production for Broadcast and Independent Productions.

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[Gary Adcock]

[Trevor Ward] “Why would anyone shoot and edit in 60p? If broadcast in SD is 29.97 and HD is either 720p30 or 1080i60 “

where ever you got your info, it was not complete or accurate

The SMPTE format for playback of ALL 720p materials is either at 50 or 59.94 frames per second, depending on where you live.
720p30 does not exist anywhere but in a computer it is NOT a SMPTE legal video format anywhere.
HD is more than 60i also what about 24p for film or digital cinema

On to 60p

the 60p capturing format allows for the camera operator to record video at frame rate different than playback- so capturing at 60fps and playing back at 30fps is equal to slowing down your video by 50% – the big difference is in the quality- since every frame is unique at capture- the offspeed footage retains better clarity and image quality when the timebase is altered

This is carry over from the film workflows called “over” and “under” cranking- where the more frames captured slow the motion down, less frames captured speeds the timing up. Watch a beer or card commercial and note how the motion is being manipulated all the time.

gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows

Inside look at the IoHD
https://library.creativecow.net/articles/adcock_gary/AJAIOHD.php

[Jeremy Garchow]

What Walter and Gary say and even though that 720p is a overall lower pixel count, it is a true progressive signal and carries twice the temporal resolution of 1080i29.97. Since 1080i displays 540 (1080/2) lines at any given time, and argument could be made that 720p is actually a higher resolution format as it’s displays 720 lines at any given time. I said COULD be made. When you capture true 1080p (which very few cameras due, although more and more everyday seem to come around) then this argument is moot.

If you shoot 720p60, it has the motion characteristics of 29.97 interlaced video (i.e. very smooth motion). If you shoot with an fps of 30 (that’s 30p with 2:2 pulldown = 60p) then you get a more ‘staccato’ and more traditional 30psf look as it’s known in the interlaced realm. Then if you shoot 24p (that’s 24p with 3:2 pulldown and that 3:2 consists of frames and not fields = 60p) you get the motion characteristics of film.

Jeremy

[Chris Borjis]

Further, 720P, has been widely accepted as the HD video
format of choice for sports.

ABC, FOX & ESPN broadcast only in 720P.

[Trevor Ward]

Again, just to clarify, I’m not asking anything about 1080 vs. 720 vs film vs SD in RESOLUTION. This is a question about DELIVERABLE FRAME RATES for a final product. I understand there’s a debate about resolution. I understand that for capturing you may want to undercrank or overcrank. This is a question of WHY would someone want to shoot at 60 progressive frames per second, other than over cranking? Is it because there are different deliverables? (see below) or is it because they just like the look they get with 60 progressive frames per second over 24 progressive frames per second or 30 interlaced frames per second?

1. Broadcast SD: 29.97 frames per second, interlaced.
2. Broadcast 1080i HD: ???
3. Broadcast 720p HD: ???
4. Film: 24 frames per second, progressive.

-trevor ward
Red Eye Film Co.
http://www.redeyevideoproductions.com
orlando, fl

[Gary Adcock]

[Trevor Ward] ” I understand that for capturing you may want to undercrank or overcrank.”

That was not the way the first post came across.

“This is a question of WHY would someone want to shoot at 60 progressive frames per second, other than over cranking?”

So the best motion capture possible since there are 2x as many frame captured- so that 1 frame only is converted to 1 field on transmission- increasing image quality, sharpness and decreasing any motion blur that can degrade an image

So that the content can be used for different output sources with out loss.

So that extreme action is captured at highest quality.

because they can do all of the above.

One great use I know of is NASA, they shoots everything at 60p so that they always have as much info captured as possible. NBA cameramen do the same at all games.

gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows

Inside look at the IoHD
https://library.creativecow.net/articles/adcock_gary/AJAIOHD.php

[Jeremy Garchow]

[Trevor Ward] “Again, just to clarify, I’m not asking anything about 1080 vs. 720 vs film vs SD in RESOLUTION. “

I know, I know, but when you say 60p, it usually means 720p. Usually. That’s why I said it.

Also, 60p is more temporal resolution so at some point, it does come down to resolution, and a bit of pixel count as that is what makes up a picture. If it didn’t we would all shoot SD. To be clear to you, I am not trying to make an argument, just stating facts to help you understand why one would shoot 60p. Temporal resolution along with the 720 lines some might say makes a better picture. That’s a reason to shoot 60p. Is that making sense? So, when you ask the question in your subject, that could be a possible answer.

[Trevor Ward] “This is a question of WHY would someone want to shoot at 60 progressive frames per second, other than over cranking?”

To capture a ‘video look’ in the highest number of frames available (ie temporal (time) resolution) to most TV sets around the world.

[Trevor Ward] “or is it because they just like the look they get with 60 progressive frames per second over 24 progressive frames per second or 30 interlaced frames per second? “

In today’s non CRT market, progressive scan highly compliments today’s format crazy deliverables. Be it web, computer, DVD, or plasma/lcd. Progressive images display nicely on these displays as they are ‘inherently’ progressive.

[Trevor Ward] “r is it because they just like the look they get with 60 progressive frames per second over 24 progressive frames per second or 30 interlaced frames per second?”

Gary touched on that. Also, when you shoot 24 or 30 in 60p you get different motion characteristics. If you shoot 60p, you get a video look, but you are capturing twice the amount of frames that a traditionally interlaced environment. Do you have a 720p camera or know someone that does? It’s easiest just to see it. if you find one, find a thing that moves in simlar motions, like one of those dancing flowers or stuffed animals that reacts to light or loud sounds. Set the camera to 720p60, 720p30, 720p24 and record the thing doing it’s dance and then bring those three shots into FCP and watch them on an HD monitor. It will become clear.

Making more sense?

Jeremy

[Chris Borjis]

[Trevor Ward] “This is a question about DELIVERABLE FRAME RATES for a final product.”

if your final product is 720P it MUST be 59.94

be it: DVCPRO-HD or Blu-Ray Authoring or something else.

720P Deliverables MUST conform to 59.94

edit: 1 exception to this.

a 720P video stream for Blu-Ray can be 23.98 or 59.94

[Sean Oneil]

[Trevor Ward] “1. Broadcast SD: 29.97 frames per second, interlaced.
2. Broadcast 1080i HD: ???
3. Broadcast 720p HD: ???
4. Film: 24 frames per second, progressive”

Both NTSC and 1080i (that was shot on video cameras – not film or 24p video) have a temporal rate of 59.94 (same as 60p). So when converting 720p60 to NTSC, you are not really cutting the frame-rate in half, so to speak. The temporal rate remains exactly the same. I’m guessing not understanding that is root of your confusion and this topic.

Sean

[Ewald Vorster]

Hi im in South Africa ok and im working with 720p footage for the first time, the only way i could capture this footage is 1080i, but now when i play back my exported 8bit uncompressed file 1 or 2 shot seem to be jerking slightly. It was shot 25 over 60 fps so im working on a pal drive.

Could this be coz im capturing progressive footage interlaced …. 720p cptured at 1080i.??