Welcome Shane From Outside USA

[Ron Lindeboom]

Toke,

I do not speak for Panasonic and I do not work for them, nor am I an agent of theirs and merely speak for myself and those of us here who make the Cow site. As such, I am really getting sick of reading the same tiresome post over and over.

The truth probably is — and Panasonic is likely just too nice to tell you (but I am not) — that you have nagged and nagged on people so damned much with the same tiresome rhetoric that no one wants to take your calls anymore. It happens. They know what you are going to say before they even get to you. I know I do and I am sure many here think the same thing. I wouldn’t take your calls if I were a service person. I am not saying that that is what is happening but it’s a possibility. I mean, ask yourself if you would want to deal with someone like you if you were in their shoes. Would you want to hear it over and over?

Why?

You do NOT listen. You get an idea in your head and you will not let go of it — even if it’s wrong.

Panasonic is NOT telling you what your twisted reasoning espouses. It is simply NOT the way that things get done. But you do not want to hear that. You would rather repeat the same thing over and over as if repetition gives your words some kind of moral and situational integrity. The truth is, they are nothing more than the rantings of a guy who is asking for something that is outside the purview of the way that this industry and market operates. Dreaming is okay but you can hardly expect the world to line up based on your dreams. But you do not like that and so you climb onto the back of the same old underfed, rarely watered, never brushed retired plow horse and force the poor damned emaciated animal out of the barn and into your latest tirade parade — again. Let it die and send it to the glue factory for crimanny sake…

It’s really tiresome and if it doesn’t stop you will join the list of people who became anathema at the Cow and are no longer welcome here.

I really hate to play the heavy but at a certain point things have to change or the forums end up ruined by those who highjack them and post the same thing over and over — just as you have been doing.

Please heed the warning,

Ron Lindeboom
creativecow.net

[Paul Nevison]

Hey Ron,

hear what your saying here – and it’s your party so you can ban who ever you like 🙂

however, I think Toke is expressing a frustration that is felt by many PAL users – we are well and truely the poor cousin to you guys in the NTSC camp. i understand that business is business and some markets may not warrant the R&D, but we really tend to get the thin edge of the wedge when it comes to support and such like…and then dont even get me started on how ripped off we are when it comes to prices!!!

I think most PAL users would just like to remind the ‘big guns” that we exist and in my biased opinion make some of the best work that our industry offers globally.

it would be nice to see some parity when it comes to developing for PAL and NTSC….and has the whole HD revolution been a missed opportunity to get us all on the same standard anyway – gosh imagine that if it was all the same….anyway back to dreamland 🙂

Love your work Ron – long live the cow!

G5 DP 2.0
4.0G RAM
OS 10.4.6
QT 7.0.4
FCP 5.0.4
BMD Decklink Extreme 5.5.1
PAL Land

[Jan Crittenden livingston]

[paul nevison] “however, I think Toke is expressing a frustration that is felt by many PAL users – we are well and truely the poor cousin to you guys in the NTSC camp. i understand that business is business and some markets may not warrant the R&D, but we really tend to get the thin edge of the wedge when it comes to support and such like…

it would be nice to see some parity when it comes to developing for PAL and NTSC….and has the whole HD revolution been a missed opportunity to get us all on the same standard anyway – gosh imagine that if it was all the same….anyway back to dreamland :-)”

I think the problem for any of the developers is that it was not until late last year in 2005 that 720P was even going to be an accepted format in EU. I remember being at IBC, September, and that both formats 720 and 1080 were going to exist was big news. I can appreciate the frustration but in this very thread it has been mentioned that Apple is working on it. Suggesting that Panasonic become a software encoder for the Apple QuicKTime Codec is what probably put Ron and even myself over the edge.

Hope this helps,

Jan

Jan Crittenden Livingston
Product Manager, DVCPRO, DVCPRO50, AG-DVX100
Panasonic Broadcast & TV Systems

[Ron Lindeboom]

Hi Paul,

I understand your frustration and I can and truly do sympathise with it.

The problem comes in when users like Toke want to beat down a manufacturer like Panasonic because of something that is clearly not in the common trade custom of this industry. Should it be? That is clearly open to opinion and debate but it has not been customary — at least not for the most part — and Apple’s support of PAL is and has been one of the short-comings for FCP users in the land of 25fps.

I really do not like to slap down users and play the heavy but when one person after another tells someone why this is so and they will not listen nor write someone (like the Apple Quicktime and FCP teams) who can do something about it and just want to start up again with the same rhetoric, then I have to put my foot down.

Thanks for your understanding,

Ron Lindeboom
creativecow.net

[Toke]

[Ron Lindeboom] “The truth probably is — and Panasonic is likely just too nice to tell you (but I am not) — that you have nagged and nagged on people so damned much with the same tiresome rhetoric that no one wants to take your calls anymore.”

Your guess is wrong.
I put a question in panny europe’s forum, got an e-mail answer to that over a month later, gave some feedback about four(4) detailed issues I’ve had with european hvx and got answer that feedback was sent forward three weeks later.

[Toke]

[Jan Crittenden Livingston] “Toke, this is not what I said and frankly I am a little irritated that you have decided to obscur my words. What I said was we do not write code, we do not know how to make a Quicktime codec to work in Apple.”

I’m sorry if I irritated, but I didn’t meant to obscur your words, I just tried to tell how it made me feel.
I’m also sorry if I have misunderstood that Panny does write a lot of code; lots of drivers to your products.
I was under impression that eg. hvx’s usb drivers, fw drivers, p2 drivers for pc-card slot and p2 viewer were written by Panny.
So if you do have an army of coders to write drivers for dozens or even hundreds of products, it might not be so big effort to write your own qt-codecs for your own compression format. If my assumption was wrong, I’m sorry again.

[Toke]

[Jan Crittenden Livingston] “I think the problem for any of the developers is that it was not until late last year in 2005 that 720P was even going to be an accepted format in EU.”

If I still may continue on this topic; isn’t it quite irrelevant what format is chosen for broadcasting? It won’t be anyway same as acquisition format.

All I wanted to hear by joining this topic, was others opinion about would it be businesswise smart to offer NLE codecs with the acqusition hardware, rather than wait for 2 years (or more) for NLE manufacturers to add support. AFAIK, Panny has been offering 1200-vtr and varicam for Europe since 2004.
I also suggested that in future making your own codecs might be even more important. (RED will make its codecs, SI+CF will use their own, etc., this is the IT revolution, more and more depends on software…)

Since my nagging wasn’t considered quite productive, I’ll just shut up about this subject and patiently wait for those qt-codecs. Maybe next August, maybe not…

[Paul Nevison]

thanks Ron + Jan,

I guess we have all heard of hug a tree…how bout next NAB you get buttons made up that say “hug a PAL user”….We would appreciate the love from you NTSC cats 🙂

G5 DP 2.0
4.0G RAM
OS 10.4.6
QT 7.0.4
FCP 5.0.4
BMD Decklink Extreme 5.5.1
PAL Land