Weekly Rates v.s Owner Daily Rates — How to Justify

[John Cummings]

No pissing match here, John…I can see your point. But I’m afraid you may be picking on the wrong guy.

Unfortunately, the rate genie is well out of the bottle and every thing’s on the table now. Last summer, I was offered a long-term deal on a cable series at what I thought was a ridiculously low rate…and it also included all kinds of extra gear at a discount. I turned it down on principle, and it was snapped up by another well-known area DP. The attraction, of course, is the steady gig…even if it is a much lower rate. Did the other guy make enough to justify the gouge? Probably…but he worked very hard for it. Do I regret not taking it? A little.

Now for a reality check. “Affordable” HD cams, reduced advertising rates and a glut of freelancers is putting tremendous downward pressure on rates. Now there’s guys with EX-3’s and the like hoping to play in my space. I know I’m going to have to deal with these people sooner or later. The only thing keeping me safe right now is 29 years of pro experience and producers that know the difference and need quality. That’s my market and it’s pretty small…and shrinking. But it’s only going to get worse, and rates will inevitably continue to fall. Just watch the guys taking the deals next year when the economy really tanks.

I’m very happy to be getting my full daily rate on this project. If throwing in a few extras helps make my client happy, then that’s what I’ll do…because it’s the right thing for me. And in my case, it’s not your typical one week and out scenario.

As for the next guy that gets the call…I hate to say it, but he’ll have to make his own deal. That’s the new reality.

Sorry if I got a little off-topic, but it’s a good discussion, anyway.

J Cummings
DP/Chicago
http://www.cameralogic.tv
HDX-900/HDW-730S/DXC-D50

[Matthew Romanis]

Hi Noah,
Rule was probably the wrong word to use, more “the thing done” instead. (“as a rule” here means “Generally speaking”, one of those language region things.)

There are always deals to be struck with clients, but to expect a weekly rate without disclosing that wish in the initial negotiating is a bit rich.

Don’t forget this is a world wide forum, and “This economy” is not the case all through the world. Believe it or not, some regions outside the States are not anticipating a crunch, for the foreseeable it’s business as usual.

[John Sharaf]

John,

I appreciate your calm tone and reasoned logic, and you’re right this is a good discussion!

Furthermore, you’re absolutely right about the pressures on established rates due to the state of the economy, low ballers, bottom feeders and cheaper cameras, but I believe the pendulum is always in motion and even though it looks bad now, I do feel that us old timers may have our day once more and see our experience reflected in enhanced rates, in fact, it’s in our power to structure the deals we make to do just that.

I know for sure that I do command a higher rate when I work with my Cine Altas or Varicams than I did with my Betacams, but I do wonder what will happen with both labor and equipment rates once the PDW700 settles in as the camera for all seasons. As I’m sure you know, it costs a little more than half of the Varicam (original price) and about half of the Sony F900R, so I suspect the package rental will end up close to what Betacam was, especially as it becomes adopted by most freelancers, and I believe it will be by virtue of it’s acceptance by CBS and NBC and it’s ability to shoot both 1080 and 720, as well as SD in NTSC and PAL, etc.

I know that folks are getting disproportionate rental rates for HDX900’s (as we know it’s an under $30K investment for body and vf) vs. over $50K that many of us paid for the Varicam three and four years ago, and these inflated rentals will not go on forever. The economics of HD camera ownership require early adoption to allow enough time to turn into profit and there’s always the chance that premature obsolescence will rear its ugly head.

What little I do know about salesmanship and negotiation, I learned on the only “real” job I ever had, and that was one summer when I was in film school many years ago, as a Good Humor man, selling ice cream from a truck. I learned right away to ask my young customers as they raced up the truck not what they wanted, but how much they had to spend. This is a strategy that continues to serve me well to this day with film and television producers.

My only advice is to structure the deal to take all of their money by discounting the gear as much as you have to, while retaining the labor rates and conditions to our advantage. This strategy assures the maintainance of a respected position for the cameraperson and their crew, while letting the producer still feel that they’re getting a good deal on the gear; as good if not better than the dry hire rates from a competitive rental vendor. Everyone gets what they want/need.

JS