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Walter Murch won’t use FCX
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I know, it’s crazy, right? Why reinvent the wheel?
But is FCP/tracked methodology analagous the wheel? Is it so perfect that we can’t look ahead or for alternatives?
The combustion engine has worked well for a good long time, but don’t you think it’s time to start looking at alternatives to it to sustain a healthy (and growing!) population?
What will we lose in that process? Also, what will we gain? Is loss is implied during change as well as the gains?
What true alternatives have we had up until now?
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[Jeremy Garchow] “I will ask you nicely, please don’t vilify me.”
I have absolutely no intent whatsoever to vilify you in any way. And, I’m not writing to protect or defend Walter Murch either. It’s just that what’s been written about his statements regarding FCPX illustrate many of the misunderstandings and quick judgements I often see here, but at higher level.
Mr. Murch is doing things at a level of complexity and sophistication that is mind-blowing, even to many of the most sophisticated audio pros in the world, which makes his example an excellent case in point. I think it can be used to show that deployment of FCPX, for many users, is actually much more black and white, on or off, all in or all out, than you might believe. And, there are not all those many shades of gray and subtleties that you and others seem to believe so strongly. This is about an ongoing “theme” here, which I feel needs to clarified once and for all, lest it continue forever.
I think we all understand that some users are unable to use X at this point in time, because of functionality the app is currently lacking, but more importantly, like it or not, some editors may simply never be able to use FCPX, because of some functionality it may never have.
And, what I’m suggesting to you about Walter Murch is actually true for many other editors as well, which is, it makes little difference how much time they’re willing to put in to try to make X work. For many, trying hard has, and may continue to have, absolutely no bearing on the matter whosoever, and to suggest otherwise is just a simplified view of the editing universe.
What I’m saying is that, while it’s true that some may be too quick to judge FCPX, and we’d agree that’s clearly wrong, so it’s also clearly wrong to be too quick to judge those, who like Walter Murch, know in short order that X does not fit into their post-production ecosystem.
As has been said before, you don’t have to jump off a bridge to know it’s not conducive to long life. And so, whether you’re at the very pinnacle of the industry, like Walter Murch, or just a very experienced editor like a David Roth Weiss, a Shane Ross, or a Walter Biscardi, who happen to have a fairly deep understanding of “professional collaborative workflows,” putting in lots of time trying to make X work at this point is not going to make it work any better in the ecosystems in which we work.
And finally, until it becomes absolutely clear whether Apple has or has not painted itself into a corner, it should be perfectly understandable that Walter Murch and many others don’t have the time or the inclination to put in all the time beta testing that you and others are so willing to devote. Nor should that necessarily disqualify Mr. Murch or anyone else from expressing their opinions, as it’s a given for many that FCPX simply does not fit into certain workflows, and that’s true whether they’ve used X a lot or perhaps not at all.
David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles
https://www.drwfilms.comDon’t miss my new Creative Cow Podcast: Bringing “The Whale” to the Big Screen:
https://library.creativecow.net/weiss_roth_david/Podcast-Series-2-MikeParfitandSuzanneChisholm/1POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™
Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Business & Marketing and Apple Final Cut Pro forums.
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[Jeremy Garchow] “But is FCP/tracked methodology analagous the wheel? Is it so perfect that we can’t look ahead or for alternatives?
The combustion engine has worked well for a good long time, but don’t you think it’s time to start looking at alternatives to it to sustain a healthy (and growing!) population?
What will we lose in that process? Also, what will we gain? Is loss is implied during change as well as the gains?
What true alternatives have we had up until now?”
All great and perfectly valid questions. I guess I’m still of the mind that tracks are the wheels of an NLE. I’m openminded about other possibilities, but I have yet to experience any meaningful benefits with FCPX’s new timeline model.
Another way of saying it: better = better. Newer or different, not so much. I need proof.
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David Lawrence
art~media~design~research
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I think it’s pretty clear that Apple has moved its business to a complete focus on the generalist user. This will allow for some professionals to use their products, perhaps even a great majority of them, but will leave out those who require a high degree of control and power in hardware and software. Apple has given up what it sees as a small portion of a market in the hope of reaching a larger market. I think I said this somewhere in the beginning of your other thread “Is FCPX really worth it?”. This application will probably never support the needs of some users, almost certainly it will never support Walter Murch.
All the best,
Tom
Class on Demand DVDs “Complete Training for FCP7,” “Basic Training for FCS” and “Final Cut Express Made Easy”
Coming in 2011 “Complete Training for FCPX” from Class on Demand
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[Tom Wolsky] “This application will probably never support the needs of some users, almost certainly it will never support Walter Murch.
“However, others have criticized Walter Murch for not trying X “enough,” as though trying harder would make it work better for him and for all others who haven’t put in the requisite amount of time, whatever that may be.
My point is simply that for some workflows, you can try as hard as you want to make it work, but X will still not work. So, for those who work in environments more conducive to X, to think that others are simply “dismissive,” is simply far too simplistic.
David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles
https://www.drwfilms.comDon’t miss my new Creative Cow Podcast: Bringing “The Whale” to the Big Screen:
https://library.creativecow.net/weiss_roth_david/Podcast-Series-2-MikeParfitandSuzanneChisholm/1POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™
Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Business & Marketing and Apple Final Cut Pro forums.
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[David Roth Weiss] “However, others have criticized Walter Murch for not trying X “enough,” as though trying harder would make it work better for him and for all others who haven’t put in the requisite amount of time, whatever that may be.”
I’m not sure if he’s really tried it at all. Also it takes a bit more than trying for a few minutes (for most people) to understand how one might organize things. Of course it may still not work for him but without a real run through on how it organizes things it’s hard for him to know. It may not be worth his time to do that unless someone can present to him why it may be an advantage, at which point he may then say it’s and advantage or not.
Keep in mind he did say he was cautiously optimistic so there must be something he likes about it or, at least, has some belief that Apple will get it to a point that it might work for him.
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I think Apple might have plans to replace the workflow we’re used to with tracks. You need export of only certain elements right? Roles = Tracks? couldn’t be too hard to make certain roles like music, sync, fx, etc export separately.
But come on… if you were doing features would YOU choose FCP X in a 1.0 release? Naaaah.
Jerry
Apple Certified Trainer, Producer, Writer, Director Editor, Gun for Hire and other things. I ski. My Blog: https://blogs.creativecow.net/Jerry-Hofmann
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Well, I guess it’s your opinion. I absolutely see shades of grey. You or others might not.
[David Roth Weiss] “What I’m saying is that, while it’s true that some may be too quick to judge FCPX, and we’d agree that’s clearly wrong, so it’s also clearly wrong to be too quick to judge those, who like Walter Murch, know in short order that X does not fit into their post-production ecosystem. “
to be fair, he looked at in March, hasnt looked since as he has been working, and remains cautiously optimistic.
Hey took an inferior version of FCP and made a movie years ago long before FCP was seen as a movie capable NLE. Am I wrong to think that he might not do it again?Also, I feel need the need to further clarify. I am not saying the work, effort, and skill that goes in to Murch’s timeline is not worthy of mind blowing praise. It is.
But when you distill it down to its essence, it’s a bunch of cuts with some audio tracks that have been mixed to certain specs. I am talking about what I can see from his timeline that he graciously offered up for us to discuss. This is not to take away from every decision that is put in to all of those cuts and tracks. That’s what makes Murch, Murch and sets him apart, and that, I am not denying, is completely worthy of praise. but he hits control-v to make a cut just like we all do, so right there we already more similar than you seem to discount.
Again, Im not questioning his editing, I am questioning the construct. In my opinion, it’s a worthy avenue to explore as I think Mr Murch has proven on other films and workflows.
FCPX isn’t ready, it tells you that. That’s not to say with some effort it won’t ever be ready. FCP was also designed for the generalist, and look what it became. It needed a bunch of third party add ons (and in Murch’s case, highly tuned and custom workflows) to make it sing. I think this sounds sort of familiar.
Jeremy
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[David Lawrence] “Another way of saying it: better = better. Newer or different, not so much. I need proof.”
I couldn’t agree more.
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[Craig Seeman] “I’m not sure if he’s really tried it at all. Also it takes a bit more than trying for a few minutes (for most people) to understand how one might organize things.”
The problem I’m speaking about here is the “most people” part you mention above Craig. Walter Murch isn’t most people and neither are most of the editors who work in the L.A. ecosystem I work in. For most editors here in L.A. you don’t need to spend more than ten minutes on the Internet to know that X is a square peg that won’t fit into the round hole of this ecosystem.
So, again I’ll say, that you can work at it as hard as you want to, or pray to the edit gods if you will, but that won’t make X work within this environment at this time.
And so, criticizing Mr. Murch or anyone else who works in a similar environment/ecosystem, simply because they haven’t put in enough time on X is far too simplistic and simply not valid.
David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles
https://www.drwfilms.comDon’t miss my new Creative Cow Podcast: Bringing “The Whale” to the Big Screen:
https://library.creativecow.net/weiss_roth_david/Podcast-Series-2-MikeParfitandSuzanneChisholm/1POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™
Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Business & Marketing and Apple Final Cut Pro forums.
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