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Walter Murch won’t use FCX
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[Craig Seeman] “I think that comes down to how certain people process visual data. Some really depend on pattern recognition whereas others like to see only the information being focused on for the immediate task at hand.”
[Simon Ubsdell] “I think that’s a really interesting way of describing it that really strikes a chord with me – I’m definitely a pattern recognition kind of person in this as in many other regards… As you suggest, a pattern that is subject to relatively unpredictable change can really throw me off.”
Bingo!!! Craig, you’ve hit upon a very important ingredient in this discussion, which is something David Lawrence and I have discussed together more than once. And, Simon reiterates it well with some additional added insight.
Like it or not, the visual nature of tracked audio provides instant recognition and instant feedback for many who may never be able to get around it. The ultimate success or failure of FCPX may well prove to be dependent on this one aspect of Apple’s radical departure from the tracked standard.
David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles
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[Craig Seeman] “I know I focus on specific relationships as I work. I can’t imagine really being able to process 50 tracks of video and 50 tracks of audio simultaneously although I can imagine someone’s brain tuned to pattern recognition might be thrown if the pattern keeps changing through hiding and exposing information.”
Seems we’re talking about different ways to achieve the same thing. I focus on specific relationships as I cut as well. I’m sure everyone does. As a spatially-oriented thinker, the way I achieve this is by quickly and selectively zooming in and out of the timeline sections I’m interested in. The advantage with this method is that I can control the zoom level and always have the full overview and context of my piece instantly available for manipulation in context. I use a 5-button mouse with a couple dedicated keys that make this very fast.
If compound clips opened in context (the drawer-like behavior we discussed), I’d be all over them. Even something like AE’s “Shy” layers would be a step in the right direction. But right now, CCs are basically glorified nests which makes them of limited use to me. The fact that the FCPX timeline model pretty much insists that they be used at some point is a big problem for folks like me. I need full control of the edit context as I make editorial decisions. Stepping in and out breaks that.
[Craig Seeman] “I think that comes down to how certain people process visual data. Some really depend on pattern recognition whereas others like to see only the information being focused on for the immediate task at hand. In fact, for many, that may be the crux of the track vs trackless issue. The pattern recognition is completely gone in a trackless timeline. It takes a different way of thinking . . . probably a different part of the brain, and that’s why the reactions for/against the timeline are so strong. People have been trying to articulate why the do/don’t like it as a form/function issue but for many it may well be how their creative brains are wired.”
I completely agree. Well said!
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David Lawrence
art~media~design~research
propaganda.com
publicmattersgroup.com
facebook.com/dlawrence
twitter.com/dhl -
Jim, you know what what’s interesting? Borrowing from you and Murch’s timeline, I was just playing around with using a blank storyline as a separator. See here:
Jeremy
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[Jeremy Garchow] “a blank storyline as a separator”
I like it a lot!!!! Nice idea.
But I thought you thought Walter had got it all wrong?!
😉
Simon Ubsdell
Director/Editor/Writer
http://www.tokyo-uk.com -
[Simon Ubsdell] “But I thought you thought Walter had got it all wrong?!”
Absolutely not. Not my intention to say Walter Murch is wrong. Not at all. He was simply using what the interface lends itself to, which is sperate tracks. And I’ll sy it again, for audio, FCPX needs help in the visual organization department.
This goes towards the idea of the “zones” we were talking about. Add dialogue to the dialogue zone, effects to the effects zone, music to the music zone. Using Roles and Subroles could then be parted out for bussing, or effects, or export whatever.
Look what happens when you make an empty secondary a compound. See here:
A kludge, but…
Jeremy
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[Jeremy Garchow] “This goes towards the idea of the “zones” we were talking about. Add dialogue to the dialogue zone, effects to the effects zone, music to the music zone.”
I very much hope Apple will be as creative with the concept of Roles as you have been as your ideas would address many of these issues very well.
I would really like to see your Zones idea implemented in some form, and I certainly hope they are planning on using Roles for bussing. At the moment, Roles very much feel like an idea that’s waiting for its time to come.
Simon Ubsdell
Director/Editor/Writer
http://www.tokyo-uk.com -
[David Roth Weiss] “Like it or not, the visual nature of tracked audio provides instant recognition and instant feedback for many who may never be able to get around it. The ultimate success or failure of FCPX may well prove to be dependent on this one aspect of Apple’s radical departure from the tracked standard.”
But up until FCPX that was the only choice. There’s the whole other class of people like me who’d rather work the other way. The success of FCPX may well depend on how big that class is of course.
It may well be that Apple felt their market would stagnate being one amongst a full class of choices using a similar approach. They chose the direction to lead that other class. I can only guess that when Apple was “listening” (maybe watching) they were hearing something which motivated them to take this other direction. I’m guessing they saw this as a class with greater growth.
I think some people may need to understand they are one or the other type of information processor and pick the tool that serves them best. It’s no more a “right or wrong” than being left handed or right handed. For Apple the consideration is does this class have enough growth potential to increase Mac sales? Time will tell.
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Thanks, Simon. I send ideas to Apple, but who knows….
There’s a flaw in this method in that any XML or interchange that’s exported will get these empty tracks. Not ideal.
Perhaps some sort of “Page Break” or null object could help keep things separate without getting written in to the language. I don’t know. I think Zones would be slick (and easier) and would simply mirror Roles/Subroles.
[Simon Ubsdell] “Roles very much feel like an idea that’s waiting for its time to come.”
I completely agree. I feel the same way about the timeline index giving “bird’s eye view” control of the elements in the timeline.
It’s just a hunch, but with multicam coming, I’d suspect that a deeper level of control will be needed; at least I’m hoping it will show up. If not, then I start looking around.
One more thing about Murch. Murch is a steely eyed missle man. I didn’t intend to say that Murch was wrong, I hope it didn’t come across that way. He is simply using the tools at hand, which like it or not, dictate a certain way of working that we are all used to seeing. To me, it’s the FCP7 interface that perhaps is “wrong”, or rather it is certainly different in 10.
Jeremy
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[Jeremy Garchow] “To me, it’s the FCP7 interface that perhaps is “wrong”, or rather it is certainly different in 10.”
A UI paradigm that’s been proven successful since the invention of the tool over 20 years ago is the “wrong” one? Okaaaaaay… 😉
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David Lawrence
art~media~design~research
propaganda.com
publicmattersgroup.com
facebook.com/dlawrence
twitter.com/dhl -
If I understand your premise you want to slide the gap and the connected video and audio. Select the gap and nudge it, comma or period, Shift-comma or period, or type in a plus or miss value.
All the best,
Tom
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