Walter – HD DVCPro edit workflow

[Walter Biscardi]

[Ben Holmes] “I seem to remember you extolling the virtues of using HDDVCPro as a codec, particularly when working with HDV. What’s the deal with using this if you are inputting HD-SDI into a Kona?”

You input the HDV via HD-SDI and set the Kona to capture in the DVCPro HD codec. This is exact workflow for a new series we’re starting in October.

[Ben Holmes] “Can you tell me if a) the quality is good enough for broadcast – as I’m looking at a time critical situation, so it might be a worthwhile compromise and b) If the hardware accel. is only seen as better RT performance or if, crucially for me, it actually means quicker renders?”

Absolutely. Discovery Networks is now accepting DVCPro HD masters and we’ve delivered 30 episodes to the Food Network so far using an entire DVCPro HD workflow in post. DVCPro HD is incredibly clean and a really nice codec to work with in Post.

As for hardware acceleration, what the Kona cards do is lift the scaling operation from FCP so the app is free to do more real-time filters or video tracks. Both DVCPro HD and HDV are anamorphic formats and FCP scales them back out to normal size in realtime during playback. For DVCPro HD, the real frame size is 960×720 and FCP scales it back out to 1280 during playback. The Kona cards take care of this scaling so the processors are free to do other things.

No this does not mean quicker renders, unless of course you’re comparing HDV renders to DVCPro HD renders. What it does mean is a much more efficient workflow as I can run the 3-Way Color Corrector, Broadcast Safe, Levels filters on my video with a graphics track above in real-time. Renders are still controlled by the speed of your processors.

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
https://www.biscardicreative.com
HD Editorial & Animation for Food Network’s “Good Eats”
HD Editorial for “Assignment Earth”

“I reject your reality and substitute my own!” – Adam Savage, Mythbusters

[Gary Adcock]

[Ben Holmes] “What’s the deal with using this if you are inputting HD-SDI into a Kona? I understand the codec is excellent in terms of quality, but also that FCP offers some hardware acceleration for it.”

I am in total agreement with walter, by allowing the content to be taken out of the horrid ( on a Mac) HDV native codec, Using DVCPROHD will allow for faster handling of your content mainly due to no longer needing to constantly render each and every thing that you do in the native HDV compression.

Aja has this white paper on the web site.
https://www.aja.com/pdf/support/AJA_whitepaper_HDV.pdf

gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows

My DVD’s are available @
https://www.rastervector.com/dvd/dvd.html

[John Sutherland]

Are any of you using a similar workflow for uprezing SD material? This would be taking DVCPro 50 material shot on a SDX 900.

Thanks,
John

John Sutherland
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[Walter Biscardi]

[John Sutherland] “Are any of you using a similar workflow for uprezing SD material? This would be taking DVCPro 50 material shot on a SDX 900.”

Haven’t done DVCPRo 50 yet, but we’ve up-rezzed DigiBeta, BetaSP and Beta SX using our Konas with outstanding results. In my eyes, DVCPro 50 is very close to DigiBeta in terms of quality so I would expect that to up-rez very cleanly.

Mini DV is a 50/50 depending on how rasterized the original image is. If there’s a lot of rasterization on the original DV material, it’s amplified in HD so you really need to go to a teranex for that upconversion to make it cleaner.

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
https://www.biscardicreative.com
HD Editorial & Animation for Food Network’s “Good Eats”
HD Editorial for “Assignment Earth”

“I reject your reality and substitute my own!” – Adam Savage, Mythbusters

[Ben Holmes]

Thanks to both of you.

If I wanted to use HDDVCPro in a broadcast HD enviroment, in other words where I have the option to use uncompressed HD instead, then presumably I would gain only in terms of disk space and RT speed? Compared to 720p Uncompressed obviously…

Is that about right?

Obviously, I realise that working completely in 10-Bit HD would be better, but I’m looking to shave minutes off edits here, as it’s in a live enviroment, and those long long HD renders bother me, especially where I just want to add a graphic or CC. Just to have a RT dissolve that plays in full resolution off the timeline for ‘quick and dirty’ output might help.

Sorry, I know there are a lot of questions here, I really appreciate your help.

Ben

Editec Broadcast Editing Ltd
EVS & FCP specialists for live OB operations.

“The Supercar Run” now available for international distribution from http://www.electricsky.com

See you at IBC – we’re there with our FCP/replay truck…

[Walter Biscardi]

[Ben Holmes] “Obviously, I realise that working completely in 10-Bit HD would be better, but I’m looking to shave minutes off edits here, as it’s in a live enviroment, and those long long HD renders bother me, especially where I just want to add a graphic or CC. Just to have a RT dissolve that plays in full resolution off the timeline for ‘quick and dirty’ output might help.

Sorry, I know there are a lot of questions here, I really appreciate your help”

That’s the definite advantage of the DVCPro HD workflow. With a Fibre Channel array I get a LOT of realtime during my editing workflow and to me that’s far more important than “how many streams of video play in realtime.” You can CC your material if needed and your transitions and graphics will play in realtime if you need it to play out.

DVCPro HD material is identical in quality whether you work in 10bit or DVCPro HD native. HDCAM material looks outstanding in the DVCPro HD codec as well. It’s a win-win for your situation using the DVCPro HD workflow.

My suggestion is to do a test edit and try the workflow before you throw into a live situation. We did almost 6 months of testing with Good Eats before we commited to the workflow.

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
https://www.biscardicreative.com
HD Editorial & Animation for Food Network’s “Good Eats”
HD Editorial for “Assignment Earth”

“I reject your reality and substitute my own!” – Adam Savage, Mythbusters

[Ben Holmes]

[walter biscardi] “DVCPro HD material is identical in quality whether you work in 10bit or DVCPro HD native. HDCAM material looks outstanding in the DVCPro HD codec as well. It’s a win-win for your situation using the DVCPro HD workflow.

My suggestion is to do a test edit and try the workflow before you throw into a live situation. We did almost 6 months of testing with Good Eats before we commited to the workflow.”

Many many thanks – that’s what I was hoping to hear! And we’ll be testing before we start – but I don’t think I’ve got 6 months! Must be nice to work on the same show with the same setup for a long period as well…

I feel sure that a lot of editors, coming into HD, feel intimidated into working uncompressed in the belief that it’s necessary for top quality HD output, complemented by expensive arrays to run it. Personally, I was swayed towards HD DVC Pro after a cameraman friend of mine (who’s also a pretty handy Combustion user) decided on it for his HD Kit purchase over an HD Cam kit, and he’s the fussiest guy I know about image quality. He said he just couldn’t justify doubling the outlay for the Sony kit, when the quality was so close.

I know, I know, there’s ABSOLUTELY a time and place for uncompressed HD. Just think it may not be the ideal solution for me at the moment – and we’ve got arrays more than capable of running uncompressed if required.

Can I check one thing? Presumably the Kona will play back an HD DVC Pro timeline back out HD-SDI so I can lay-off to HDCAM if required? Those are the decks in the OB trucks we often work in.

Again – thanks.

Ben

Editec Broadcast Editing Ltd
EVS & FCP specialists for live OB operations.

“The Supercar Run” now available for international distribution from http://www.electricsky.com

See you at IBC – we’re there with our FCP/replay truck…

[Gary Adcock]

[walter biscardi] “Mini DV is a 50/50 depending on how rasterized the original image is. If there’s a lot of rasterization on the original DV material, it’s amplified in HD so you really need to go to a teranex for that upconversion to make it cleaner.”

Ditto.
the intelligent noise reduction in the terranex is unrivaled for up-rezzing noisy DV footage to make is acceptable for addition to HD projects.

gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows

My DVD’s are available @
https://www.rastervector.com/dvd/dvd.html

[Gary Adcock]

[Ben Holmes] “f I wanted to use HDDVCPro in a broadcast HD enviroment, in other words where I have the option to use uncompressed HD instead, then presumably I would gain only in terms of disk space and RT speed?”

This is the method that many are using in Live broadcast – Tom Meegan has been using this workflow for the playoffs and world series for MLB for the last 2 years.

as for space
720p60 8bit is 400 gigs for an hour of content
DVCPROHD @ 720p60 is only 54 gigs per hour of content.

gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows

My DVD’s are available @
https://www.rastervector.com/dvd/dvd.html

[Gary Adcock]

[Ben Holmes] “Can I check one thing? Presumably the Kona will play back an HD DVC Pro timeline back out HD-SDI so I can lay-off to HDCAM if required? Those are the decks in the OB trucks we often work in.”

NO issue there, I do it all the time. you will need a Kona 3 to be able to do that from 720p material however.
the Kona 2 does not do the cross convert.

gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows

My DVD’s are available @
https://www.rastervector.com/dvd/dvd.html