“Uncompressed” delivery – what codec do you use?

[Dino]

When I get the request for an uncompressed files it always sounds like a catch all for, “I don’t know what I want but I want the best, uncompressed, yea, that’s it!”

Within QuickTime there are two good codec choices, None and Animation. None is just what it says it is, no compression, no encoding, just bit for bit, pixel for pixel RGB. Animation can have some compression though it is a true lossless compression.

Delivering either of these will pretty much guarantee absolute compatibility with any package that can read QuickTime, on any platform, going back several versions.

[Jerry Hofmann]

If it were me, I’d ask the client which codec… He’ll know what he can use. There isn’t a “standard” uncompressed codec don’t think. ProRes makes sense in many cases because it’s smaller… and can be played on a PC if they download the codec from Apple’s site.

I think the real question that needs to be answered is what are they going to do with the file? Just air it or edit it further? Ask them what system they intend to use and the answer to your question becomes apparent.

Jerry

Apple Certified Trainer

Author: “Jerry Hofmann on Final Cut Pro 4” Click here

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[Gary Adcock]

[Dino Sanacory] “Within QuickTime there are two good codec choices, None and Animation.”

Other than Baseband video we do not work “un compressed” we capture on compressed camera systems for the most part ( damn few of you work from DPX files captured on set)

Back to the point – NONE as a codec has so many issues that it is not used and if it is it only used in very rare situations, I work with high-end workflows and even I do not ever handle any files as “NONE” ( not once in all my years) and any telling people to use it is doing them a great disservice.

1080 23.98 as 10bit as (Apple or 2Vuy / UnCompressed or as Animation is about 140 Megs a second while the same file encoded as NONE compression is something over 365 Megs a second. or virtually unplayable on all but the highest end systems.

Animation codec is by far the most commonly used cross platform codec and is considered to be “uncompressed” in quality.

The Apple 8 and 10Bit codecs are universally viewable on both platforms when the proper tools are supplied. You cannot view these formats on computers that do not have any professional Video codecs installed on them. These are NOT consumer formats- nor are these codecs found in anything but the tools used by real pros, I can regularly read APPLE UC 10bit on Mac’s and Pcs’ without issue.

gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows

Inside look at the IoHD
https://library.creativecow.net/articles/adcock_gary/AJAIOHD.php

[Mark Spano]

Animation’ll probably do. I am constantly dealing with folks in the pro broadcast world who do not read Apple Uncompressed 10-bit 4:2:2 in their systems. I tried to deliver this to someone at Hulu and they could not process it. I had to deliver H.264 (which then would be recompressed !) for advertising on their site. I tried to deliver uncompressed to another encoding house which also couldn’t handle it. Then required me to deliver as “uncompressed AVI” as they were working on PC without the FCP codecs. I hate uploading an 800MB file for a :30 spot only to have to reencode and upload again… so maybe I’ll just suggest Animation from the getgo. Thanks for all your input.

[Dino]

My suggestion of None and Animation had nothing to do with the best choice for a particular system or playback consideration. The suggestion had to do with fulfilling a request for “uncompressed” with no further qualifications. If the receiving party can’t clarify their needs, there is no point in making a choice which may not work for them.

Animation stands as universal for anyone that can take a QuickTime. None is what I default to when people, due to their ignorance, balk at Animation. Delivering a Final Cut native codec is pointless if they need to load that file into an old Meridien Avid on Windows. Delivering an Avid native codec is a bad idea if they are using that file in a dedicated hardware graphics system.

As much as I would like to give a client or the next step in the chain exactly what they want, I can’t do that if they can’t tell me what they want. Animation or None may not be the best choice for a specific situation but it is a choice that will ultimately work.

Is it possible for the client to install some of these other codecs on their machines? Absolutely. My experience however has been that the same folks who can’t articulate their needs are the same ones that will not be messing with their machines based on outside recommendations. Further, do I really want to become free tech support for their facility when it creates problems because of inadequate support at their end?

My well reasoned and carefully crafted guess may be a result of a genuine heart-felt effort to give the best choice possible. But when it ends up not working, in their eyes I am the one who failed. Delivering ridiculously large files which require extra processing at their end rarely result in complaints. A file they can’t use wastes time at both ends and creates resentment which I don’t need.

[Mark Raudonis]

This isn’t a technical issue… it’s a human “knowledge” issue.

Many people (read that “clients”) are CLUELESS when it comes to communicating technical specs. They may have heard a few buzzwords like “uncompressed” or “DNxHD”, but they really don’t know what they mean. Worse, they just don’t understand the implications of what they’re asking for.

As professionals, we take on the responsibility of protecting them from their own lack of knowledge.
The easiest way to do that is to ask to speak directly with the “end user”…i.e. the other editor/post house/grfx house/ network who has to use what you’re giving them. Inevitably, this conversation will
change what the client initially blurted out, and result in smiles all around.

My only other bit of advice is to put any intended delivery specs IN WRITING! There’s just too many
variables involved not to be absolutely, 100% clear.

Mark

[David Roth weiss]

[Mark Raudonis] “My only other bit of advice is to put any intended delivery specs IN WRITING! There’s just too many variables involved not to be absolutely, 100% clear. “

Listen to Mark! He has so many people handing off so much stuff and they just can’t afford to guess what needs to be delivered. And, neither can you…

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles

POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™

A forum host of Creative COW’s Apple Final Cut Pro, Business & Marketing, and Indie Film & Documentary forums.

[Gary Adcock]

[Mark Spano] ” I am constantly dealing with folks in the pro broadcast world who do not read Apple Uncompressed 10-bit 4:2:2 in their systems”

Mark

Apples Uncompressed codec is a standard 2vuy codec,
the only problem I have the damn 2gig file limit on FAT32 drives.

gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows

Inside look at the IoHD
https://library.creativecow.net/articles/adcock_gary/AJAIOHD.php

[Mark Spano]

Of course, that is the ideal scenario, but it is *way* too often that I have a deadline and no contact info for the ultimate destination/user. Being a processing front for a producer who has a relationship with a client often means the people I’m talking to are many levels removed from the people who will handle the material I output. In many cases, they do not even know who gets it, just that it gets uploaded to some drop box (e.g. Hulu) or burned to a disc and gets messengered or Fedexed to “Library”. It’s obviously someone’s job to be connected in this, but as a facilitator for the “grunt work” on the job, I often have just enough time to do the actual work, and no time to network or chase down this or that person. It’s these scenarios where I’ll get the call from the ‘right’ person *after* the delivery/deadline has been made, only to find out what was needed and what had been misinterpreted or not relayed through the client to the producer etc. etc… Even then, the ‘right’ person often doesn’t understand enough about what they’re doing to ask for the right thing. Often I get responses like “usually they just give me a Quicktime” – that as we all know is about 10% of the info I’d need to properly deliver. It is all too common for broadcast corporations to hire people at low pay grades to ‘ingest’, basically training them to ‘load this here’ and ‘capture from here to here’. I think what I was asking for could have been more clearly described as not just a foolproof but an idiotproof codec to deliver to get them something they can work with without jumping through too many hoops. You guys as usual answered above and beyond the call. I could say I hope these situations occur less often as we proceed into the future, but I am already perturbed more and more by the descriptions of jobs that come in with the info “it’s an HD job” or “they want a Quicktime” (umm…specs, anyone?)

[Mark Spano]

Gary, when you say it’s a standard 2vuy codec, where can that be found? I assume some codec packages exist for PC independently of pro video software? Many of the folks I’m dealing with are often reencoding using some hardware or software destined for either broadcast or web publishing. The fact that they open my files and tell me “there’s just a blank screen, no video, but the audio plays” tells me they’re missing a suitable playback codec that doesn’t come preinstalled with whatever software they’re using. This is the point in the conversation where I’ve struggled to find some common ground in codecland. And yes, even these “pro” users sometimes don’t have permissions to install codec packages or drivers to play non-compliant files.