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Tv frequency doesn’t matter?
I had someone tell me yesterday from china that all he needed to know was frame rate, 30p or 60i…because I told him NTSC at 30p and he told me that no one uses the language NTSC or pal anymore…just dealing in frame rates.
So while I understand this, because it’s either 50 or 25 OR 60 or 30. Are those the only 2 tv systems out there? Is SECAM dead? What about
NTSC-J? -
17 Replies
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SECAM is a broadcast system, production was done in PAL. NTSC and PAL are standard definition formats. The only difference in HD formats are frame rates.
All the best,
Tom
Class on Demand DVDs “Complete Training for FCP7,” “Basic Training for FCS” and “Final Cut Express Made Easy”
Author: “Final Cut Pro 5 Editing Essentials” and “Final Cut Express 4 Editing Workshop” -
[Jason Brown] “he told me that no one uses the language NTSC or pal anymore.”
maybe in China…..not here.
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Here being?
All the best,
Tom
Class on Demand DVDs “Complete Training for FCP7,” “Basic Training for FCS” and “Final Cut Express Made Easy”
Author: “Final Cut Pro 5 Editing Essentials” and “Final Cut Express 4 Editing Workshop” -
[Jason Brown] “I had someone tell me yesterday from china that all he needed to know was frame rate, 30p or 60i…because I told him NTSC at 30p and he told me that no one uses the language NTSC or pal anymore…just dealing in frame rates.
So while I understand this, because it’s either 50 or 25 OR 60 or 30. Are those the only 2 tv systems out there? Is SECAM dead? What about
NTSC-J?”If we are talking transmission standards:
There are still countries that use NTSC, and are not scheduled to change for the next 3-5 years. And some not at all. Plus in America, low power translators are still free to broadcast in NTSC, and many continue to do so.
NTSC-J is scheduled to go offline in July.
PAL in one flavor or another is one of the most popular TV broadcast standards with well over a hundred countries adopting it. Many PAL users have converted to DVB, and a few to NTSC or ATSC. But still there are countries still using PAL with no plan to convert to anything. Some of them had just converted from SECAM, which is often a cheaper conversion, since SECAM is pretty much a cousin of PAL, and a lot of the gear can be retained and/or modified.
SECAM is not dead. It continues to be used in quite a few places also. Some exclusively, others simulcast in PAL.
As hard as it is for many of us to believe, in many smaller, developing, and ‘third world’ countries, the population simply doesn’t have the disposable income to abandon their current broadcast and reception gear on a whim like we can.
Scott Sheriff
Director
https://www.sstdigitalmedia.comI have a system, it has stuff in it, and stuff hooked to it. I have a camera, it can record stuff. I read the manuals, and know how to use this stuff and lots of other stuff too.
You should be suitably impressed… -
[Scott Sheriff] “If we are talking transmission standards:”
What if we aren’t?
I’m trying to understand what kind of decisions I need to make on production workflow.
As I understand it:
I have the ability to select PAL, NTSC or NTSC-J in my PDW 700. I’m not doing any transmission on my end and I’m going to produce final pieces in NTSC and PAL.
Seems that NTSC-J is really only a factor if transmitting the signal (which I’m not)
So, between NTSC and PAL, is it better to go with more frames and convert down to PAL? Or is it an easier convert up to NTSC?
-Jason
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[Jason Brown] “I’m trying to understand what kind of decisions I need to make on production workflow.
As I understand it:
I have the ability to select PAL, NTSC or NTSC-J in my PDW 700. I’m not doing any transmission on my end and I’m going to produce final pieces in NTSC and PAL.
Seems that NTSC-J is really only a factor if transmitting the signal (which I’m not)
So, between NTSC and PAL, is it better to go with more frames and convert down to PAL? Or is it an easier convert up to NTSC?”
More info on what you’re trying to do would really be helpful, if you’re looking for specifics. Are you having to incorporate footage from other sources? Where are you shooting? How and where are you doing the final distribution?
I’ll just make a couple of general observations.
Since we aren’t talking xmission, NTSC vs NTSC-J the only real difference is 7.5 ire black for NTSC, and 0 ire black for J. Same frame rate. Most everyone shoots 0 black (and super white) anyway, and fixes the levels in post for whatever the delivery standard is.
Should you acquire/post NTSC or PAL?
With that camera, I would shoot and post in HD, and then downconvert to SD.
For choosing the frame rate, I would work backwards from my required final delivery format, which you should do for every project. For multiple delivery formats, I would work in the local standard of where I was shooting if my footage was going to be the bulk of the project. Or if you have to match a lot of other footage, shoot in a format that the bulk of the other footage is.
Perhaps others might chime in with some options here.Scott Sheriff
Director
https://www.sstdigitalmedia.comI have a system, it has stuff in it, and stuff hooked to it. I have a camera, it can record stuff. I read the manuals, and know how to use this stuff and lots of other stuff too.
You should be suitably impressed… -
[Tom Wolsky] “Here being?”
USA
I do PAL work about 2-3 times a year. There is still some demand for it so it matters where I work.
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[Scott Sheriff] “More info on what you’re trying to do would really be helpful”
It’s still in the early stages of planning. Shooting and producing pieces that will live most likely exclusively on computers, played back with various media players in potentially US, EU, South America, and Asia. Shot in those various locations, edited here in the US.
[Scott Sheriff] “Are you having to incorporate footage from other sources?”
No, we will acquire all of it.
We don’t need to downconvert to SD, everything can live in HD.
Thanks for the great info…I’m learning a lot from this thread, need to get out of my foxhole more often! 🙂
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[Jason Brown] “that no one uses the language NTSC or pal anymore…just dealing in frame rates.”
Yes they do use NTSC and PAL with HD formats.
1080 / 60i is NTSC. It works with the 60khz electrical cycle in the United States so you don’t get an image flicker.
1080i / 50i is PAL. It works with the 50khz electrical cycle in Europe and will flicker when you watch it on a television in the united states.
720 / 30 and 60 are NTSC.
720 / 25 and 50 are PAL.
As we deliver programming to both the US and Europe, we have to deal with NTSC to PAL conversion as a regular course of business and yes, the formats are still referred to as PAL and NTSC.
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Editor, Colorist, Director, Writer, Consultant, Author, Chef.
HD Post and Production
Biscardi Creative Media -
[walter biscardi] “will flicker when you watch it on a television in the united states.”
when I was in Australia last year, the tv flickered anyways. It was very mild and barely noticed, but it was there. PAL TV playing PAL Signal and it flickered.
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