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Timecode Rate Issue for Re-digitizing
I am batching in all the media for an offline sequence, and in the Browser, the “TC Rate” column says 30. However, the type of footage is DVCPRO HD 720p60 23.98. In another project where the same sequence was digitized (by someone else) the TC Rate for all the footage is 60.
I just now noticed this after having already digitized several tapes, and there doesn’t seem to be a problem other than the fact that the timecode isn’t showing me 24fps, however, I don’t like the inconsistency.
Since it was all shot 720p60 23.98, shouldn’t the TC Rate for the clips I’m batching in right now be 60?
What’s the difference?
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17 Replies
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So the TC rates are 23.98, 59.94 and 29.97? The compressor for DVCPRO HD is always 720p60, but the framerate, if 24p, should be 23.98. If it was shot regular 60p, then it would show up as 59.94.
Without knowing how your footage was shot or originally logged and captured, I can’t tell you what is going on.
Shane
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The footage was shot DVCPRO HD Varicam 720p60 23.98fps.
The frame rate isn’t changing, but the way the timecode is displayed IS changing. So, in the viewer, when I match frame a clip, with the TC Rate set to 30, it displays 30fps timecode, skipping frames so that there are 24 in 1 second. The same happens for when the TC Rate is set to 60.
I don’t really know what the point of the TC Rate is. I imagine it’s so that you get frame accurate digitizing, but thus far, it hasn’t been a problem with the TC Rate of all the clips set to 30.
It IS possible for me to change the TC Rate in the Browser back to 60. It doesn’t affect the media in the timeline. It only changes the way the timecode is displayed in the viewer when I look at it.
Do you have an understanding of what all this means and what I should do?
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[thebishop] “The frame rate isn’t changing, but the way the timecode is displayed IS changing. So, in the viewer, when I match frame a clip, with the TC Rate set to 30, it displays 30fps timecode, skipping frames so that there are 24 in 1 second. The same happens for when the TC Rate is set to 60.”
If this footage comes from tape, than this is all normal. DVCPRO HD 720p is recorded on the tape at 60fps. If you set the camera to 24p, the camera flags the footage as 23.98. When you open FCP then choose that easy setup, it will capture the flagged footage at 23.98, but the TC numbers will still be in a 60 frame mode….so they will jump all over, but still go from 00 to 59. This is normal.
1080i footage recorded at 29.97, but captured at 23.98 will again lose a few TC numbers. This is normal.
[thebishop] “I don’t really know what the point of the TC Rate is. I imagine it’s so that you get frame accurate digitizing, but thus far, it hasn’t been a problem with the TC Rate of all the clips set to 30.”
It’s all about the look you want and the amount of storage required for video. 23.98 has a film look, and takes up a LOT less space…less than half that of 59.94fps. And if you are required to deliver a 23.98 master, shooting 24p and capturing and editing 23.98 makes that a snap. If you are required to deliver a 29.97 master, it would be best to work in a 30 frame format. The final deliverable weighs heavily on the workflow employed.
[thebishop] “It IS possible for me to change the TC Rate in the Browser back to 60. It doesn’t affect the media in the timeline. It only changes the way the timecode is displayed in the viewer when I look at it.”
You can? Oookay…how, and why? Why does this matter? TC numbers really shouldn’t matter to you, except when you need to recapture, and it will recapture fine.
[thebishop] “Do you have an understanding of what all this means and what I should do?”
Do about what? What are you trying to do? I don’t get the question. If you are working with 23.98 footage from a 60 frame tape, then the numbers missing is normal. Enough…move along. What YOU need to do is study more about what delivery requirements are, and what the best formats for shooting to fulfill those requirements are.
Shane
Littlefrog PostGETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD now for sale!
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Thank you. This is very helpful.
I am bringing the footage in at 23.98 through a Kona Card. So it seems the flagged frames are all that’s being digitized.
On an unrelated note, how do you do the Quoting of the previous person’s post in your own post the way you just did?
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“Note: To include any portion of this post in your response, highlight the desired text with your mouse and hit the “Q” key.”
This is at the very top of all posts.
Shane
Littlefrog PostGETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD now for sale!
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Other than the way the timecode is displayed, there doesn’t seem to be a difference between a TC Rate of 30 and a TC Rate of 60. However with this footage, which was shot 720p60, the proper rate is 60.
What’s strange is, even when I change the TC Rate in the Browser before digitizing the clip, it changes back to 30 when I capture it.
Does anyone understand this TC Rate business?
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[thebishop] “Other than the way the timecode is displayed, there doesn’t seem to be a difference between a TC Rate of 30 and a TC Rate of 60”
Uh, there is a difference. A BIG difference. A TC rate of 30 is 30 frames per second. A TC rate of 60 is 60 frames per second….TWICE as many frames. The footage will be smoother, the data rate will be twice as high, and the clips will take up twice as much space on the drive. The TC displays are indicating how many frames you have. Each frame is assigned one number….
[thebishop] “What’s strange is, even when I change the TC Rate in the Browser before digitizing the clip, it changes back to 30 when I capture it.”
Of course. The footage is 30p…it has been flagged as such by the camera.
[thebishop] “Does anyone understand this TC Rate business?”
I seriously don’t get what you DON’T understand about this TC rate business. If something is 60fps, then you’ll have 60 frames and 60 numbers per second…00 to 59. If your footage is 30fs, then you have 30 frames per second and 30 numbers…one per frame. If your footage was DVCPRO HD and was recorded as 30p…flags were set on the tape to tell FCP to capture ONLY 30 FRAMES…so the other 30 frames, and 30 numbers, would NOT have been captured. They are unneeded. They exist on the tape, but not when you captured them.
Shane
Littlefrog PostGETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD now for sale!
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[Shane Ross] “I seriously don’t get what you DON’T understand about this TC rate business. “
I understand how timecode works. What is confusing me is that this same footage was digitized into another project where the TC Rate said 60. So I feel like I might be doing something wrong!
[Shane Ross] “The footage is 30”
I don’t think it is. Like I said above, the footage was originally uprezzed and the settings are as follows: 720p60 23.98, TC RATE of 60.
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[thebishop] “What is confusing me is that this same footage was digitized into another project where the TC Rate said 60. So I feel like I might be doing something wrong! …the footage was originally uprezzed and the settings are as follows: 720p60 23.98, TC RATE of 60. “
OK…the timecode rate of DVCPRO 60 is ALWAYS 60…59.94. Always….period. BUT, you can capture your footage as 24fps (23.98) or 30fps (29.97) if flags were set in the footage saying “capture this at 24fps.” The footage is recorded on the tape at 60fps, with duplicate frames. When FCP captures that footage, it REMOVES the duplicate frames…but the timecode is STILL 60fps, so it will still go from 00 to 59, only not all the frames were captured. The camera assigns one timecode number to each frame…so 60 fps is the timecode rate. Only, again, not every frame is captured.
Shane
Littlefrog PostGETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD now for sale!
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Shane,
I know that. So why isn’t the footage that I’m capturing right now come in at 60? Why is FCP interpreting it as 30? I’m looking at the exact same footage on another drive and it’s at 60!
Could it be a deck setting? Kona card setting? FCP Capture setting? Everything seems to be set up right?
What am I missing?
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