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Thoughts on 10.1.2
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[Jeremy Garchow] ” but Projects themselves, the naming and convention did not disappear”
That would have been rolling things too far back for Apple. “Projects” as a term is used in both Aperture and Logic, so it’s consistent for their software, if not the industry.
[Jeremy Garchow] “The data did change a bit because Projects are now called “.fcpevents” in the Finder which is probably what needed to happen”
That’s not a change! That’s simply making it part of an event, which is what users were in effect doing anyway by editing compound clips inside an Event. FWIW – this is identical to Avid’s structure, where bins are data files at the Finder level. An avid bin can contain footage, sequences or both.
And, they’ve been doing it since the late 1980’s – way before Mavericks 😉
– Oliver
Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com -
So you’re saying fcpx libraries and avid projects are structured the exact same way?
Got it.
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I’m not sure- but I know I read when it came out that 10.1 was required for the specific Library structure they were using- so (I believe) it’s an OS level improvement.
I’ll do some digging to see if I can find some more info.
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[Jeremy Garchow] “They didn’t create a ton development work for themselves”
You think that FC auto updating all FC libraries to be compatible with the new library structure took no time to develop? You think that the original version of FCP X could not have allowed storing media outside the project/event folders? You think different projects could not have been stored in different containers on the same drive? Very early on end users came up with workarounds that allowed both. It was a design decision. They were wrong and have corrected the mistake. Mavericks did not invent alias files, or library folders. It’s interesting to me that they have announced the EOL of Aperture and IPhoto way in advance and made it compatible with the next OS while they develop an alternative app. They have even released the name, PHOTOS, and that they plan to integrate the pro and consumer app as one. Never did that before. This is not what Apple has done historically. They are evolving as a company. All the tech companies are moving towards cloud and mobile device integration. It’s a mixed bag but they see it as do or die.
Mac Pro, macbook pro, Imacs (i7); Canon 5D Mark III/70D, Panasonic AG-HPX170/AG-HPX250P, Canon HV40, Sony Z7U/VX2000/PD170; FCP 6 certified; FCP X write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.
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[Jeremy Garchow] “So you’re saying fcpx libraries and avid projects are structured the exact same way?”
Yes. Similar if not exactly the same. Event = Bin = data file.
– Oliver
Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com -
[Craig Alan] “You think that FC auto updating all FC libraries to be compatible with the new library structure took no time to develop?”
No. You made it seem like they developed FCPX to be as it was and everything after that has been one big bug fix, and I am saying that that was the stepping stones to get where we are today. You said they created a ton of development work for themselves, those were your words.
[Craig Alan] “ou think different projects could not have been stored in different containers on the same drive? Very early on end users came up with workarounds that allowed both. It was a design decision. They were wrong and have corrected the mistake.”
OK, for the third time. They weren’t “wrong”, I think it was the plan all along. We will continue to see this differently, and that’s OK. We could argue that X was released a little early, but I also think that they had to force it out of the nest, or it would never fly.
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[Oliver Peters] “Similar if not exactly the same. Event = Bin = data file.”
Except Events aren’t available immediately to the user on the Finder. You can’t import an Event from a library in to another library. Events aren’t really bins, in my opinion that’s an oversimplification.
You also can’t store and manage multiple forms of media inside of an Avid project like you can an FCPX Library and move that media in or out at will. OR send a sequence with organization in tact.
They are completely different, and I’m sure you know it.
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[Jeremy Garchow] “Except Events aren’t available immediately to the user on the Finder. “
Sure they are. They are simply obscure as a bundle so you have to use “show package contents”. You also have to do that with other apps, too, like Adobe SpeedGrade.
[Jeremy Garchow] “You can’t import an Event from a library in to another library.”
You can, though it copies, to keep the two events unique.
[Jeremy Garchow] “Events aren’t really bins, in my opinion that’s an oversimplification.”
They are the same in that they are self-contained data files.
[Jeremy Garchow] “You also can’t store and manage multiple forms of media inside of an Avid project like you can an FCPX Library and move that media in or out at will.”
The main difference is that Apple puts them into the Library and Avid puts that folder into a separate Avid MediaFiles folder. In addition, with AMA, it can now also be stored externally. Avid supports various native non-Avid codecs with rewrapping, inside the MedaiFiles folder. Effectively AMA works just like importing media into FCP X, but leaving files in place.
[Jeremy Garchow] “OR send a sequence with organization in tact”
I don’t know what you mean by that. With mirrored media, you can freely exchange only sequence bins between Avid MC users, same as with FCP X. Neither app allows you to send a sequence without anything else and have it work. FCP 7 did that. But both allow you to export a file (FCPXML and AAF) for just the sequence with links to media.
[Jeremy Garchow] “They are completely different, and I’m sure you know it.”
I said “similar”. You are insisting on “same”. But you knew that 😉
– Oliver
Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com -
[Oliver Peters] “Sure they are. They are simply obscure as a bundle so you have to use “show package contents”. You also have to do that with other apps, too, like Adobe SpeedGrade.”
We are splitting hairs here, but on the Finder level, you cannot move one Event from one Library to another, or import an Event to a Library via the Finder. I mean you can, but FCPX doesn’t recognize it.
[Oliver Peters] “They are the same in that they are self-contained data files.”
Might as well though docx and pdfs in there too, then?
[Oliver Peters] “The main difference is that Apple puts them into the Library and Avid puts that folder into a separate Avid MediaFiles folder. In addition, with AMA, it can now also be stored externally. Avid supports various native non-Avid codecs with rewrapping, inside the MedaiFiles folder. Effectively AMA works just like importing media into FCP X, but leaving files in place.”
You will admit that Avid’s style isn’t as flexible, the sneeze of resultant MXF files isn’t as browsable, and that in general, FCPX’s methods are much easier and intuitive though, right?
[Oliver Peters] “[Jeremy Garchow] “OR send a sequence with organization in tact”
I don’t know what you mean by that.”
I mean that when you send a sequence out to a new library, the keyword organization comes over to the new Library.
[Oliver Peters] “[Jeremy Garchow] “They are completely different, and I’m sure you know it.”
I said “similar”. You are insisting on “same”. But you knew that 😉
“Well then maybe you didn’t mean it?:
[Oliver Peters] “Yes. Similar if not exactly the same. Event = Bin = data file.”
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[Jeremy Garchow] “Well then maybe you didn’t mean it?:
[Oliver Peters] “Yes. Similar if not exactly the same. Event = Bin = data file.””Are you missing the word “similar” in that sentence?
Look, this is an utterly stupid argument (cue Monty Python). I’m merely trying to point out that Apple saw a good concept and copied it. Maybe it’s more flexible, maybe it isn’t. It’s more modern, so it would be a shame if it weren’t better.
– Oliver
Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com
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