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The Red Nightmare
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“…most likely we’re looking at an HD output maybe to HD cam SR, but the director and DP would like to do the color correct with the raw files in order to get the best image quality, not sure if I’ll be doing that or if they’re going to pay for it to get done at a facility.”
Going out to HD Cam SR would also pretty much negate the benefit of CC’ing the R3D’s, wouldn’t it? Or would the resulting downsample from the R3D’s to HD Cam result in a better quality image than if you had stayed in 10 bit? hmm…
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One final word: RedRushes is multiprocessor aware, Final Cut Pro is not, so the transcodes will go faster in RR on a dual or quad core Mac.
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Joe,
Thanks for the link, I was actually just looking at that article, so would you say that using rr to transcode will be better than doing it in fcp log and transfer, will it still be as easy to locate the original media when onlining at the end? As far as outputting to hd cam sr that’s just a guess at this point one thing for sure is that we will not be going back to film, but in my experience the better the starting image quality and the more pixel info the better the end result even when downrezed to hd cam, however if you’ve got any alternative formats that we should look into I’m all ears.
Thanks again,
Ben -
Red Rushes will make it VERY hard to retrace your project back to RED. If you Log and Transfer your ProRes files, it will be MUCH easier to go back.
But yes, FCP is slower than RedRushes for making quicktimes.
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“Red Rushes will make it VERY hard to retrace your project back to RED. If you Log and Transfer your ProRes files, it will be MUCH easier to go back.”
Like I said RR is multi-processor aware (huge advantage time-wise over L&T on a dual or quad core Mac) and will give you full res debayers. FCP, no on both counts. And it’s only hard to retrace back if you use FCP Media Manager. Exporting an XML of your sequence to ClipFinder works like a dream. And for short sequences without too many clips, you can just do it manually by changing the clip names in the Browser to match the proxies File>Reconnect Media, and changing the timeline resolution in the sequence settings.
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As detailed in the Indie4k workflow, to conform back to the R3D’s you export an XML of your FCP sequence to ClipFinder, which will switch your clip names to the camera QT proxies and change your sequence resolution settings to match. You could also just simply change the clip names of the clips in the FCP Browser window manually,by adding the _H extension to the clips in the Browser so they match the proxies, File>Reconnect Media, and change your sequence settings to match.
I agree that you get the best image quality from downrezzed 12 bit R3D’s. But by transcoding everything in RR at Full Res Debayer, scaled from 4k to 2k (which gives you the downsample-from-higher-res benefit), and color correcting those 10 bit ProRes HQ clips in FCP, you might get marginally lower quality results with inarguably less hassle (no EDL, no online, no recreating your titles and effects after Color, etc).
The drawback with the above is the amount of time full res debayers take. But you could transcode everything at 720p half-res first, edit, then go back to the R3D’s and full res debayer, scaled 4k/2k transcode the clips in your sequence. Like I said, it’s a tradeoff between 12 bit color vs full res debayers, because Color will not crank out full res debayered QT’s. Pick an R3D, CC it’s proxy in Color, then take that same R3D and full-res transcode 4k/2k scale it in RR, and 3-Way Color Correct it in FCP and see what you think. I myself am pretty sold on full res debayers.
Some other good stuff on this thread
https://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=29732
If anyone sees any flaws in my thinking here please post up, thanks.
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[joe hedge] “Going out to HD Cam SR would also pretty much negate the benefit of CC’ing the R3D’s, wouldn’t it?”
HDcamSR is considered the highest quality imagery that can be delivered on tape and yes 10bit is the highest quality you can record in video.
Joe
I think you have a misconception about the how and why. While an R3D file is capturing 12bits of data, there are very few devices that can actually see the full info and unfortunately Apple’s COLOR is not one of those apps. How do you monitor a 12bit image correctly- I do not know of ANY mainstream 12 bit enabled displays or for that matter scopes… and if you tell me that you are working on a cinema display – I will be laughing even harder- DVI is capped at 8bit too.The existing structure for film workflows is working at 2K with DPX frame sequences,DPX files can be handled at much greater bit depths because of the nature of working with image sequences, unfortunately for video the bit depth is capped at 10bit (for now) and the overwhelming majority of the display devices are still only 8bit.
gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production WorkflowsCheck out
https://www.aja.com/kiprotour/Inside look at the IoHD
https://library.creativecow.net/articles/adcock_gary/AJAIOHD.php -
Yeah I’ll have to do some more tests at this point, but manully renaming isn’t an option because this is a 10-12 min short and there are about 15 reels of material, my other problem is that I’m running 10.4 OS still and clipfinder only works with 10.5 and I’d rather not risk the upgrade at this point as I’ve heard doing the upgrade install can affect your programs, has anyone else had those problems when upgrading or is it less buggy now that the OS has been out for a while? Thanks for all the help
Ben -
Gary
One thing I do not have a misconception about is that I have misconceptions haha. Part of my learning process is throwing ideas out on these forums and getting smacked down. If you did not do so already and I am just too thick to understand, could you tell me if there is any benefit in CC’ing 12 bit R3D proxies when you are finishing in 10 bit (or less) video, and you can’t see 12 bit on practically any monitor anyway?
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I’ll just add a couple of quick things.
I really like editing in ProRes compared to the proxies. If you’re just using these as an offline edit, you can just use ProRes SQ instead of HQ. If you use REDRushes, you can even compress it at 720P which can be very edit friendly.
So how are you going to color correct the project. We use Scratch all the time and all you need to do is kick out an edl. Very slick. If you’re going to use Color, the key is to keep the file names without any of the proxy extensions (_M, _H, _P, _F). That way, you can just reconnect to whatever file you want. Using this method, I’ve created small edit version of RED files using REDRushes, then reconnected them to the Native QT wrapped R3D file that you import using Log and Transfer. From there, you can import your show into Color and see the R3D files. It’s really pretty slick.
One thing I don’t like about Log and Transfer is that it only scales by a factor of 2. So depending on if you shot 4K 16:9 or 4K HD, you’ll end up with files that are either 2048 pixels wide or 1920 pixels wide.
-Russ
Russell Lasson
Colorist/Digital Cinema Specialist
Universal Post
Salt Lake City, UT
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