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The age old iMac question once again, I know I know
In doing my research on the purchase of a new final cut system I have really started to look at the iMac. I love the price and the power of the machine (27 inch quad-core), but am very aware of its limitations. I will not need a set up for any broadcast work, but still want to be able to edit in 1080 Pro Res HQ from time to time and other compressed HD formats. Most of my edits are tapeless, but still have the need for HDV, DV, DVCAM.
I like the idea of going the way of ethernet Raid leaving the FW800 port open. However, in doing my research I have found mixed reviews on this topic. Some people have stated that they are doing this without issues, while other creative cow posts say that transfer speeds on the lowered priced ethernet setups are only at 40/30mbs. You can spend the money on a faster ethernet Raid setup, but that kind of starts to offset the price of the iMac.
I also came across this site that had a lot of great info on video codecs and transfer speeds:
https://www.larryjordan.biz/articles/lj_video_data_rates.html
Now according to that site 1080 apple Prores HQ has a transfer speed of 27.5mbs. Seems like even the lower transfer rate ethernet setup can handle this, but when doing multiple streams it may start to suffer.
This is the setup I was looking at if I were to go this route:
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822155003&cm_re=d_link_2_bay-_-22-155-003-_-ProductWhat lowered priced setups are you using, and how are your results? Will I be okay with the type of work I need to do and that setup, or should I just go the way of Mac Pro?
Also, how much RAM would you put in it? 4gb should do the trick I would think seeing as how final cut only can use 2.5gigs of ram.
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9 Replies
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NAS drive benchmarks to help you.
https://www.smallnetbuilder.com/index.php?option=com_nas&Itemid=190
There are no “technical solutions” to your “artistic problems”.
Don’t let technology get in the way of your creativity! -
[Rob McLain] “while other creative cow posts say that transfer speeds on the lowered priced ethernet setups are only at 40/30mbs. You can spend the money on a faster ethernet Raid setup, but that kind of starts to offset the price of the iMac.”
You need the proper setup to run ethernet RAIDs correctly. We get around 100MB/s to all our workstations. Plenty to cut 1080i ProRes. Small Tree Electronics are the people to talk to about ethernet connectivity.
As has been discussed in multiple threads about iMacs in this forum over the past month or so, I am installing multiple 27″ iMacs into our new edit suites as our current 21″ iMac is having no problems cutting a feature documentary using our ethernet SAN.
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Editor, Colorist, Director, Writer, Consultant, Author.
HD Post and Production
Biscardi Creative Media“Foul Water, Fiery Serpent” now in Post.
Creative Cow Forum Host:
Apple Final Cut Pro, Apple Motion, Apple Color, AJA Kona, Business & Marketing, Maxx Digital. -
Thanks for the info guys. I will give Small Tree a call on Monday. However, after looking at their website I have a strong idea that they are going to be out of my price range. I am just a one man shop working out of my home cutting side projects. I have a feeling I am just going to have go with the Mac Pro with internal RAID.
I highly doubt I would get the speeds I need over FW800 g RAID.
If only Apple would have put in a port for external SATA everything would have worked out with the iMAC.
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[Rob McLain] “I highly doubt I would get the speeds I need over FW800 g RAID.”
For ProRes? Sure, why not? Have you looked at WeibeTech’s website? They have an incredible set of enclosures with FW 800 as one of the ports. Stripe four drives in a RAID and you’ll have more than enough speed for ProRes on the iMac.
best part is you could take this RAID to another shop for capture or layback if you need to capture / layback to a format you don’t own. That’s one thing we’ve started offering in our shop since we’re all set up with AJA Kona boards. Capture at our shop, go back to your office to edit, then come back to our shop for layback.
This is a sweet little box over there and they have multiple variations on these….
https://www.wiebetech.com/products/RTX400QR.php
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Editor, Colorist, Director, Writer, Consultant, Author.
HD Post and Production
Biscardi Creative Media“Foul Water, Fiery Serpent” now in Post.
Creative Cow Forum Host:
Apple Final Cut Pro, Apple Motion, Apple Color, AJA Kona, Business & Marketing, Maxx Digital. -
Thats is good to know. I was always under the impression that FW 800 was only fast enough to handle ProRess 422 SD, not streams of 1080 ProRes 422 HQ.
I also work in a shop where we I have the ability to capture, and layback to every format under the sun. That is why I am looking at the iMAC. All I really need is a system to do the edits and create a file/project that I can output elsewhere. I will however need to burn to Blu-Ray and DVD but I could always move what I need to the iMAC’s drive and burn from that. I might even be able to daisy chain for a external burner, or for DV footage.
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Walter, thanks for taking the time to go over this with me. I have looked at WeibeTech’s website and at various other Raids sold by companies such as G-Tech, Other World, and Caldigit. In all of the tests done there does not seem to much difference between a four bay, and two bay drive in terms of speed. G-Tech Raid actually has the fastest numbers. It has write speeds in the lower 80s and read speeds in the upper 60s/lower 70s. I guess my question how will this effect my workflow? I really want the ability to work in ProRes both SD and HD multiple streams and effects. I plan on digitizing my HDV/DV footage to ProRes as this is a much better codec all around to work in. More than likely will have to do a daisy chain during the capture process. I would hate to have such a fast and powerful machine as this only to be slowed down by the external drive. At the moment I only have a $2800 budget so the Mac Pro is not an option.
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Where you will be doing multi clip with a machine that had hard drive conection limitations, I would highly recomend using the new ProRes Proxy codec instead of the standard ProRes codec. ProRes Proxy has a much lower data rate therefore it will be more friendly to drives with lower read/write speeds.
https://www.apple.com/finalcutstudio/finalcutpro/apple-prores.html
There are no “technical solutions” to your “artistic problems”.
Don’t let technology get in the way of your creativity! -
[Rob McLain] “I really want the ability to work in ProRes both SD and HD multiple streams and effects.”
Multiple streams and effects will be very limited with FW800. There are some RAIDs out there that can do more than others. You get all of this extra ability when you switch over faster RAID connections that you simply can’t get with an iMac unless you step up to the Small Tree solutions like we’re using here.
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Editor, Colorist, Director, Writer, Consultant, Author.
HD Post and Production
Biscardi Creative Media“Foul Water, Fiery Serpent” now in Post.
Creative Cow Forum Host:
Apple Final Cut Pro, Apple Motion, Apple Color, AJA Kona, Business & Marketing, Maxx Digital. -
[walter biscardi] “Multiple streams and effects will be very limited with FW800”
Which is exactly why it would be so much better wo work with ProRes Proxy, considering the storage limitations of the iMac.
There are no “technical solutions” to your “artistic problems”.
Don’t let technology get in the way of your creativity!
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