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Thank you Apple – and don’t change course. Please
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[Herb Sevush] “[Jeremy Garchow] “OK. If Apple had released FCP8, would we feel any different or have they done you a favor?”
If they released 8 I would have purchased a used MacPro as I waited for the upgrade. I would not have feared the end of MacPro’s because there wouldn’t have been the same indication of Apple’s indifference to the high end market. If and when they eol’d the Pro line I would have been more open to the idea of a Thunderbolt alternative. In other words I would have been happy in my blindness.”
Me too!
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[David Cherniack] “NLE’s must do a wide variety of tasks for a wide variety of uses and users. They must interface with the analogue world of a wide spectrum of hardware. I can’t imagine that any 3D software, as complex as they are to learn and use, is as complex to write.”
David,
I’m not a software developer either, but it seems like the work of developing a program that can cut 2D images and audio, would be a much smaller technical challenge than writing a high end 3D package with all the bells and whistles (rigging, texturing, modeling, lighting, rendering, scripting, etc.) I would assume (for instance), that the work involved in writing a video encoder pales in comparison to the effort needed to make a decent unbiased 3D renderer. I’m willing to admit if I’m wrong… but this is what makes sense to me. 🙂
Shawn
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[Michael Gissing] “I can’t use it as a finishing tool the way I did with FCS3…”
Is weak audio mixing and lack of tape I/O keeping you from using FCPX as a finishing tool?
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As Jeremy nicely puts it: I fell the need to response and go through Scots post point for point.
[Scott Sheriff] “The whole “storyteller” and “artist” paradigm is getting overplayed, and tired. It’s straight out of the ‘Stereotypes R Us’ catalog. Do you wear a beret when you edit?
From that couple of paragraphs, I can only imagine you are either 80 years old, and with so few years left you don’t think your career will advance beyond your current needs before you assume room temp…
Or
Your career path is pretty much YT, or Vimeo art/hobby pieces, and you don’t see a future where anything other than the basics, or any type of collaborative effort will be required. Sort of like a video version of Lomography. “Ok you know what I think of this part 🙂
[Scott Sheriff] “These two statements seem to be in direct conflict. You desire that X should never be anything other than some generic, entry level type tool because that’s your speed, so does that me everyone else has to suffer?”
To call FCPx a ‘generic, entry level tool’ is your interpretation. I actually think it is a very well thought out editing tool. If it makes you suffer than don’t use it. If you use it and suffer than I do not have any sympathy because I do not understand why you would use it? Unless of course a client forces you too. Is it what you a fearing?
[Scott Sheriff] “I’m glad that X meets all your current, and future needs. What does that say? Think about that. X hasn’t even been out for a year.
I guess it must be hard for you to understand that there are those of us out there that need, want, and can handle a lot more horsepower than X will ever deliver. And that we have some pretty big investments tied to the apple brand, in both hardware and software, and in that respect apple has let us down, and failed to meet our expectations. This is why we are passionate about this. As a someone that uses FCS, I don’t give a rats ass about X, iMovie, or even Express. Had apple continued with FCS, and simply introduced X into the mix, there wouldn’t be an issue.”Sounds like Apple came to your shop and cut the power? FCP7 is still working fine on all current Apple hardware and all i/o companies have working drivers. As Walter pointed out Avid and Premiere work just fine on exactly the same hardware. Doesn’t sound to me like big investment in hardware has become non-functional over night. If you want to switch all you need to do is buy some new software. Might be a bit more than an update to FCP8 would have costed you, but hardly the earth shattering ‘I have to replace everything I own’. Only thing that has happened is that Apple didn’t continue a software line. You still can work and have plenty of time to make your current hardware make it’s money and when it is time to buy something new to see what is out there. It took me a year to make the decision that I will not jump ship.
[Scott Sheriff] “Where you, and others like you make your big mistake is acting like those of us that were expecting FCP8, or FCS4 and didn’t get it, want to take your toys away. I’ve never understood this. No one said anything like that. This is a straw man created by fanboys to defend, the undefendable.”
I only did say that I like FCPx and hope Apple will continue with it. I’m not afraid of you, but knowing Apple I can’t be sure what their plans are. Maybe they decide after the storm that the whole NLE thing is too difficult and they drop it altogether. I just wanted to let people on the cow know that there are people out there who like it . Kind of a different perspective to the majority of views. That’s all.
[Scott Sheriff] “Long before movie hero came along there was FC Express, and iMovie. A couple of aps that didn’t have “hundred menus and buttons I will never use”, to use your words. These were perfectly suited for the dilettantes, or hobbyists that wanted to play TV. In all the hundreds (and perhaps thousands) of posts where working editors were pining for this and that to be included in the next version of FCP, you will not find ANY where those that need a full blown editing tool wished to take away choices from those that don’t need anything more than iMovie, or Express. “
Dilettantes, hobbyists wanted to play TV? Again know idea who I am but happy to insult. What goes around comes around. And calling FCPx just like iMovie only shows that you only value something that has a lot of knobs and shining lights. Simplicity is an art, not the expression of amateurs. In fact much harder to achieve than to dazzle with another button here and there. There are of course areas like VFX where you need a lot of functions to get things done. But I clearly stated that this is not what I’m doing. If it is what you are mainly earning your money with you should be very happy about Autodesk because it will be 100 times more capable than FCP ever was to do this kind of work.
[Scott Sheriff] “And for this you’re thankful? I don’t get that. So you’re perfectly happy to support and defend apple, after it has told the folks that helped get them to where they’re at (sales and development wise), we don’t need you, are not going to support you anymore, and you no longer have a choice.
Apple says jump, and the only question the fanboys ask is “how high”? But there are a few of us that refuse to be cattle driven off the edge of the cliff.
IMO, if anything sounds like “nasty my way, or the highway crap”, it is the no notice EOL of FCP, and Express by your beloved apple, leaving the users with X and iMovie being the only choices, other than to migrate. That is ironic. “I also supported Apple from the beginning. I bought FCP the day it was officially released by Apple. I dropped Avid for it. So please don’t give me your implied ‘you must have been using iMovie before’. The difference is that I stopped long ago to second guess what might come, but only look at was is there. Yes Apple decision was initially confusing and I didn’t know what to think of it. But I took my time and came to the conclusion, after having another look at Avid and Premiere, that I like FCPx best. Does this make me a fanboy? If you want to call it that, sure I’m a fanboy because Apple gives me the tools I like. If they do not to you, dumb them. Don’t let them take away the responsibility for your decision. Stop being the victim and make your own decision.
[Scott Sheriff] “As I said before, no one in this, or any other forum ever once suggested taking away your storytelling tools, but you seem to be perfectly OK with the loss of ours. After all, your subject line says “Thank you Apple – and don’t change course. Please”.
So we bitched about the loss of our tools, the loss of choice, lack of notice, and get zero support from folks like yourself. Besides being perplexed by this attitude, I find it quite distasteful how so many fans of X are not just unsympathetic to the situation other editors and business owners find themselves in, but that they seem to be quite happy about it.”Where did I say I’m happy that you feel betrayed? Again you projecting your opinion onto me. True I’m unsympathetic about the constant bitching. But I didn’t put this in my post. I actually made an effort not to label anybody who disagree’s with me. I lost thousands of dollars over the last 25 years investing in hardware that suddenly wasn’t working with the latest update of this and that anymore. I could write books about it. But I’m no victim to the development of technology. In the long term I earned way more money than I lost. Experience makes me think 3 times before I spend money these days. If I buy the wrong bit and get caught I might be angry but I do not waste my time crying in front of the manufacturer that led me down. Might be fun to come here and vent and I’m not taking away from this at all as I haven’t called you anything negative. I only pointed out that there can be a positive opinion too.
[Scott Sheriff] “What the heck? As long as you have what you want, who cares about the rest of us? Right?
There are lots of reasons why you should care, but I’ll just pick one.
Past performance is the best indicator of future behavior. They killed Final Cut Server, Shake, Final Cut Express, and of course Final Cut Studio. Some day they’ll kill X too, and leave all the X users high and dry. And they will probably do it without any notice, and when it’s the least convenient for you. And when it happens, you’ll probably have to migrate to not only a new NLE, but a new OS and new hardware. And by then, maybe you’ll have some legacy projects you might need to open, and can’t. Or the codec that all your material is in, won’t run on your new system, etc…
That is the day you will see when this stuff happens to you, why it’s not very lulzy. And when that day comes, I bet you won’t be posting any ‘thank you apple’ notices either.”Same as you I have lots of FCP7 projects and I’m as you effected by the EOL here. Just my conclusion is different. And I prepared long time ago for being able to avoid being solely depending on one software. I invested in a DAM (CatDV as FCP server wasn’t right for my small shop) This gives a true independence from needing to do all media management in an NLE and does a lot of things much better than any NLE currently is capable of. Including FCPx. So the day has already come and I posted after the event.
Cheers
Carsten -
[Michael Gissing] “I can’t use it as a finishing tool the way I did with FCS3…”
Is weak audio mixing and lack of tape I/O keeping you from using FCPX as a finishing tool?
No. Most of my jobs come from FCP 6 or 7 or AVID. So they open in FCP7 (via Automatic Duck for AVID). They are sent to Color for grading and when I then add back in text it is correct.
I always need to have multiple sequence open to cut and paste between as there is always multiple deliverables required for every job. From there I add final mixes in from the Fairlight so audio in the NLE is simple. Obviously I need to route the audio out via the Kona3 to the correct channels on the HDCam & digi beta. The Kona output must be correctly synced to an external reference as I output to multiple decks.
Yes I know I can output a file from X and use another program to output to tape. Such workarounds are neither desirable or necesary as there really is nothing in X that does the job easier or better than FCS3 is doing at the moment. I do see CS6 as offering a better tool for broadcast finishing than FCS3 but X just isn’t designed for that sort of work.
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And I should also add that any NLE that didn’t allow me to set incremental autosaves is unusable for anything. Automatically overwriting a project in a non adjustable way is crazy useless.
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Wow. After just reading some of these responses I couldn’t resist an account and jump in the ring.
For those of you that are still wrapped up in bashing the software – you have every right to speak your mind. But for heavens sake leave the OP alone! Does the idea of him switching NLE’s really make you this angry to the point of coming on here a year after the release and cutting apart someone that has an open mind to it and that it is working for?
And Carsten – Don’t listen to any of this noise. If it works for you – amazing. Amongst many NLE related applications, I too use X regularly and it has given me far more creative freedom than I could have imaged in any of the other NLE’s, many of which I still love and use on a daily basis when required by clients. At the end of the day if your final product is better because you were able to utilize X to your advantage, than you’d be an idiot not to use it. And quite frankly, this industry could use to be turned on its head in terms of the content that is coming out. Look at the type of content that has been referenced here today. The Real World. Keeping Up with the kardashians… etc. Such wonderfully crafted, intelligent programming. If FCP X does nothing else than piss off the editors of these and many other TERRIBLE shows, than that’s Okay in my books. When the cohen brothers started cutting on Legacy, they were the rebels… everyone one else was AVID… and as legend has it eventually many others jumped on board. I think the world could use more editors like you that are out to tell a story with even more substance than kim kardashians fat ass may have.
Bottom line, you all have many more choices in the NLE world than you did last year. At much cheaper prices and with easier access. So please just get back to work on whatever software works for you and stop bickering already. Nobody cares that you don’t like apples business model.. wah wah, poor you. You’re Mr. big time reality show editor right? Don’t you have better things to do a year after the release than whine and complain relentlessly? Or are you just scared that X is making 15 year old skateboarders edit circles around you on their macbook airs while popping kick flips. Hate on those that support X all you want, but at the end of the day if they cut their next oscar winning doc on it, and you’re watching their acceptance speech while stuck in a dingy basement with 10 of your avid buddies cutting the next episode of the real world – who’s the real winner.
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Wow. After just reading some of these responses I couldn’t resist an account and jump in the ring.
For those of you that are still wrapped up in bashing the software – you have every right to speak your mind. But for heavens sake leave the OP alone! Does the idea of him switching NLE’s really make you this angry to the point of coming on here a year after the release and cutting apart someone that has an open mind to it and that it is working for?
And Carsten – Don’t listen to any of this noise. If it works for you – amazing. Amongst many NLE related applications, I too use X regularly and it has given me far more creative freedom than I could have imaged in any of the other NLE’s, many of which I still love and use on a daily basis when required by clients. At the end of the day if your final product is better because you were able to utilize X to your advantage, than you’d be an idiot not to use it. And quite frankly, this industry could use to be turned on its head in terms of the content that is coming out. Look at the type of content that has been referenced here today. The Real World. Keeping Up with the kardashians… etc. Such wonderfully crafted, intelligent programming. If FCP X does nothing else than piss off the editors of these and many other TERRIBLE shows, than that’s Okay in my books. When the cohen brothers started cutting on Legacy, they were the rebels… everyone one else was AVID… and as legend has it eventually many others jumped on board. I think the world could use more editors like you that are out to tell a story with even more substance than kim kardashians fat ass may have.
Bottom line, you all have many more choices in the NLE world than you did last year. At much cheaper prices and with easier access. So please just get back to work on whatever software works for you and stop bickering already. Nobody cares that you don’t like apples business model.. wah wah, poor you. You’re Mr. big time reality show editor right? Don’t you have better things to do a year after the release than whine and complain relentlessly? Or are you just scared that X is making 15 year old skateboarders edit circles around you on their macbook airs while popping kick flips. Hate on those that support X all you want, but at the end of the day if they cut their next oscar winning doc on it, and you’re watching their acceptance speech while stuck in a dingy basement with 10 of your avid buddies cutting the next episode of the real world – who’s the real winner.
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Kid–because I assume you are one–slamming other people’s work is just not the way to go. I also want to point out that its pretty clear from your comments that you have a rather naive and incomplete view of heavy production demands. I sympathize with you for wanting to stand up for Carsten, but why exactly you’d want to use to a greater degree the same tactics you are complaining about, and aim them at a party who has had little part in this conversation is beyond me.
I see that you just joined to make this one brash comment. Are you that impassioned? Or are you hiding behind a faux account? Either way, your comments are childish.
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If you are going to stick around, you also need to figure out how not to double post.
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