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Thank you Apple – and don’t change course. Please
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[Jeremy Garchow] “I feel the need to respond.”
As do we all.
[Jeremy Garchow] “So, as you say, if FCP wasn’t all that high end (and I am total agreement with that statement) why are you so mad? What is there to be angry about?”
While I agree with some of your post there were/are a few things to be angry about. The sudden EOL of Legacy with no warning is unprecedented for a product that was the market leader. It was an incredibly shabby way to treat their customers, and that was proven by their eventual near invisible re-release. The refusal to communicate about their short term MacPro plans is very annoying, to say the least. Other than that Apple owes me nothing. That doesn’t mean I won’t criticize their decisions, but then I’m critical of a lot of decisions made by a lot of companies.
[Jeremy Garchow] “Apple is simply the most recent company to put something to bed and sure, Apple might EOL other software someday, but my guess is that other companies will EOL other software too, or decide to go in another direction if profits aren’t working out.”
EOL’ing failing software happens all the time, but I doubt I’ll see another company take a profitable market leading product and throw it down the toilet.
[Jeremy Garchow] “Apple has all the money to keep making MacPros, but is that the right business decision to make?”
If they’re getting out of the market, fine, but say something so I can make reasonable plans. Other companies manage to communicate with their customers, and from now on I will only work with companies that do. To the argument “but they’ve always been that way, why get angry now” the answer is I was never burned by them before.
[Jeremy Garchow] “What other company, NLE or otherwise, gives you complete confidence that you will be able to get through the next 10 years? And why should they shoulder that responsibility?”
Their is no such thing as “complete confidence.” I merely want to work with a company that is interested in servicing my business workflow. For years Apple did, and now they claim they do but act as though they don’t. I don’t like it when someone pisses on my head and calls it rain. As for 10 years – 3 years is about as far as I want to look ahead.
Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
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nothin’ attached to nothin’
“Deciding the spine is the process of editing” F. Bieberkopf -
I’m somewhere in-between both extremes having worked on X on a few projects now. I can see where Carsten is coming from – as a documentary editor I really enjoyed some of X’s features and it definitely made my editing experience more fluid – more time to think story if you will. But there are downside too, and whilst I feel Scott’s post, eloquent though it was, was unnecessarily personal I do agree with some points he made.
FOr me the key with X is that some things it does very well, others are good ideas poorly implemented and some are poor. For me the mag timeline works well – I’ve always been an editor who likes to hold footage in the timeline and X allows me to do it in a very organic way. I loved legacy for this, coming from an Avid background, so once I got my head around the different paradigm I was happy with the new arrangement oveall. I stress overall, because the absence of tracks and some odd (read counter intuitive) behaviours makes some things slower and more cumbersome.
It’s the same for the rest of the app overall. For one job X was far quicker to cut on than 7, and the metadata capabilities were a real boon. For another, it was on a par – some faster and easier, some slower and harder. Would I use X to cut broadcast on? With provisos, yes – and they have mainly to do with timescales and stability issues, and that is my ‘cautious’ head speaking. And, thinking about it, that cuts to the nub of the issue with X for me. Editors are a cautious bunch – it only takes the thought of a machine crash two hours before TX to bring us out in a cold sweat, so we shy away from anything that takes us out of the comfort zone in terms of that which makes our lives easier. And rightly so – there’s good reason and precedent for the way NLEs have matured and evolved over the years. The ‘old’ paradigms for NLE’s are there because they’re tried and tested – we know how 7 responds, we know it’s failings and foibles – same with Media Composer. Dealing with X took me back a bit to the bad old days of cutting on early Avids – shiny, new, prone to failure and way different to 3/4 inch tape and a 9100, but rewarding too. So I’ve added X to my toolbox, and I think increasingly we need to think like this – as one in a set of tools that may, or may not, be the best tool for any given job. We’re all becoming software agnostic in a way, and Apple’s flawed attempt at ‘thinking different’ has, if nothing else, got us thinking and talking about the real meat and bones of our craft.
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Before you criticise a man, walk a mile in his shoes.
Then when you do criticise him, you’ll be a mile away. And have his shoes.*the artist formally known as Jaymags*
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Believe me I wasn’t in a rush to go out and buy something but unfortunately a fair number of the people I often collaborate with were in a rush to do so and often for very practical reasons having to do with people up the food chain with whom they had to collaborate. Also, I tend to agree with you about the new iMacs if it just weren’t for that reflective screen. Makes me nuts every time I see one. And, unlike you, I don’t necessarily agree with Carsten. But if FCP X works for him then I’m behind him all the way. At $299 I wish it worked for me.
Tim
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[Herb Sevush] “The sudden EOL of Legacy with no warning is unprecedented for a product that was the market leader.”
Was it a market leader? No question is was extremely popular, but market leader is hard to prove, and like with any statistic, you can sort of fudge the numbers around to display what is “leading” and it also is different for different markets.
[Herb Sevush] “It was an incredibly shabby way to treat their customers, and that was proven by their eventual near invisible re-release. The refusal to communicate about their short term MacPro plans is very annoying, to say the least.”
And right here is where things get interesting. Since the dawn of FCP, none of this is new, or represents a different ethos for Apple. It is simply the way the communication has always worked from Apple. They see FCPX as a replacement for Studio, and we could argue about if it really is (and it’s not, feature for feature) but everything else they have truly EOLd they have announced and brought along with it the subsequent whitepapers and information about what to do and where to go next.
While many people (including me at the moment) can’t use FCPX as an FCS3 replacement, in Apple’s eyes, it is the replacement.
[Herb Sevush] “If they’re getting out of the market, fine, but say something so I can make reasonable plans. Other companies manage to communicate with their customers, and from now on I will only work with companies that do. To the argument “but they’ve always been that way, why get angry now” the answer is I was never burned by them before.”
Damn, that was my answer. I don’t think they are getting out of the market, at least they aren’t telling us yet.
Companies can communicate all they want, but that doesn’t mean they have something else up their sleeves that they just aren’t telling us? In my opinion, and it’s only my opinion, companies will only tell you so much about their ultimate long term future plans. They can’t be beholden to promises they can’t make, either, and they shouldn’t have to be. They are trying to keep up with the market needs while trying to make educated guesses about the “future” while we are trying to keep up with them. It’s a catch22.
[Herb Sevush] “Their is no such thing as “complete confidence.” I merely want to work with a company that is interested in servicing my business workflow. For years Apple did, and now they claim they do but act as though they don’t. I don’t like it when someone pisses on my head and calls it rain. As for 10 years – 3 years is about as far as I want to look ahead.
“Yes. Servicing your particular business workflow is crucial. And if Apple isn’t in that future for you, it’s A-OK. I totally understand and get that. For some (and I think this was Carsten’s point) FCPX might fit. That doesn’t make him wrong.
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[TImothy Auld] “Believe me I wasn’t in a rush to go out and buy something but unfortunately a fair number of the people I often collaborate with were in a rush to do so and often for very practical reasons having to do with people up the food chain with whom they had to collaborate. “
And that is valid. It’s an imperfect analogy, but on a much larger scale, that is exactly what Apple is doing.
If I freelanced around at other facilities and they used Avid on a g4/OS8, guess what I’d use and like it? OK, maybe not “like it” like it, but like it?
I don’t have a choice in that matter. I do what is right for me, and that would be taking the job.
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I’ve got some long renders and file transfers over USB this morning, so here I go.
[Jeremy Garchow] “Was it a market leader? No question is was extremely popular, but market leader is hard to prove, and like with any statistic, you can sort of fudge the numbers around to display what is “leading” and it also is different for different markets.”
OK, lets throw out “market leader” and replace it with the phrase “very successful” – now I still stand by my original idea that it will be a long time before we see anything like the EOL of FCP.
[Jeremy Garchow] “They see FCPX as a replacement for Studio, and we could argue about if it really is (and it’s not, feature for feature) but everything else they have truly EOLd they have announced and brought along with it the subsequent whitepapers and information about what to do and where to go next. While many people (including me at the moment) can’t use FCPX as an FCS3 replacement, in Apple’s eyes, it is the replacement. “
Yes, in marketing terms it was a replacement, but operationally it wasn’t. The fact that it goes against everything Apple has done before is a justification for customer anger, not a proof that it was a replacement. Claiming that X was a “replacement” for Legacy is just another example of why it’s best to bring an umbrella when talking to a marketing guy. I will say that 10.04 is much closer to being a replacement, but then again the whole point was that they EOL’d Legacy with X at 1.0.
[Jeremy Garchow] “it’s only my opinion, companies will only tell you so much about their ultimate long term future plans. “
I’m not asking for “ultimate long term future plans” I’m just looking for a clue as to what they’re doing over the next 6 months. I don’t think that’s too much to ask. Intel manages to do this, as does HP, as does Adobe.
[Jeremy Garchow] “For some (and I think this was Carsten’s point) FCPX might fit. That doesn’t make him wrong.”
No argument.
Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
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nothin’ attached to nothin’
“Deciding the spine is the process of editing” F. Bieberkopf -
[Herb Sevush] “OK, lets throw out “market leader” and replace it with the phrase “very successful””
What is successful? I will give you popular and dare I say ubiquitous. I’m sure it sold a lot of computers, but as a standalone software was it “successful”? We will never know.
The last time we personally gave money to Apple for FInal Cut Studio software was quite a while ago, again, that’s my personal situation, not everyone’s situation.
[Herb Sevush] “now I still stand by my original idea that it will be a long time before we see anything like the EOL of FCP.”
It doesn’t happen often. It’s usually a big deal when it goes down. Apple is just the most recent so the wounds are fresh.
[Herb Sevush] “I’m not asking for “ultimate long term future plans” I’m just looking for a clue as to what they’re doing over the next 6 months. I don’t think that’s too much to ask. Intel manages to do this, as does HP, as does Adobe.”
OK. If Apple had released FCP8, would we feel any different or have they done you a favor?
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[Jeremy Garchow] “OK. If Apple had released FCP8, would we feel any different or have they done you a favor?”
If they released 8 I would have purchased a used MacPro as I waited for the upgrade. I would not have feared the end of MacPro’s because there wouldn’t have been the same indication of Apple’s indifference to the high end market. If and when they eol’d the Pro line I would have been more open to the idea of a Thunderbolt alternative. In other words I would have been happy in my blindness.
Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
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nothin’ attached to nothin’
“Deciding the spine is the process of editing” F. Bieberkopf -
[Herb Sevush] ” In other words I would have been happy in my blindness.”
😀
..and scene.
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[Jeremy Garchow] “And my dog is sleeping on the floor next to me.
“
Boutique! So Boutique.
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