Tapeless workflows

[Michael Palmer]

Have you tried using Mpeg Streamclip to convert the files.
I just tested it and it works great.

https://www.squared5.com

Good Luck
Michael Palmer

[Rich Rubasch]

Oops..thanks Michael. Not what I was asking. I was just presenting a circumstance in which I wondered if deleting the original files was acceptable IF I made a tape output to match the rest of the projects elements. It is normally shunned upon to delete source media from tapeless cameras.

BUT, if I only have one shoot that is tapeless, AND if I can make a tape to go with the rest, THEN is it ok to delete the source footage?

Thoughts?

Rich

[Michael Palmer]

No one here will ever tell you to delete original masters. However producing a tape is a good way to match the formats.

Good Luck
Michael Palmer

[Gerry Curtis]

As long as you feel everything was converted properly that sounds OK but seems like you’re adding some extra time and steps by converting to DVCPRO then having the editor re-digitizing, couldn’t you just hand off the converted footage to the editor on a drive along with the tape?

Cheers,
Gerry

[Tim Kolb]

[Michael Palmer] “No one here will ever tell you to delete original masters.”

Delete the original masters!

Heh heh…just kidding…’s a joke…really…

As far as a general mindset on tapeless…for the space the files would take, I’d just make data backups of the original EX data myself. I understand that the DVC ProHD dub gets you to the point where you have your usable footage, but the EX data takes a third of the data space of a full 100 Mbit DVC ProHD clip of the same length.

Having a backup never hurts…and in the world of data, it’s all first generation, so as much as copies of data is probably the most puzzling thing to get a handle on…

(when do you delete backups of raw footage-if ever?…how do I archive edited data?…do backup copies need to be removed from the building every night?…should my grip fly home on a different flight with the mirror harddrive?…)

Harddrives are cheap, and losing original data when it’s a paltry 35 Mbit/s would be hard to justify should you ever have a need for it. As for myself, I’d at least keep the original EX data around in a backup form until the project is over and all the field tapes and the edit project get archived.

My .02

TimK,
Director, Consultant
Kolb Productions,

[Rich Rubasch]

Good suggestions Gerry, however…like I said, we have 10 tapes of interviews and broll. One shoot was done with an EX1 just to record a presentation which will be used for Broll only. We transferred everything to FCP and it comes in as 23.98 XDCAM 1080 clips.

The issue is that all the tape material will be edited in a 720p60 timeline at 59.94 and the 23.98 in its data form will not mix well in FCP. BUT, if I output a tape I kill two birds…the client will have a matching tape to go with the rest for their project archive. We will now have the tape in the project instead of a random folder full of clips.

Seems to me that in all the years past that we trusted tape we only had one copy and no one thought twice about it. Sure we might have made dubs, but only sometimes and mostly for offline/online.

Tape can be trusted. I already have the footage strung out on a timeline….why not just string it out to a tape and be done with it? All the other tapes are no worse off and they don’t have any EX1 media to worry about.

I’m trying to get you tapeless guys to admit that having footage on a tape source is WAY safer than any current storage media and that once on tape you can rest easy. But also, in this case, everything else is on tape, so why not just output to tape and be done with it?

Rich Rubasch
Tilt Media

[Gerry Curtis]

Hey Rich,

Like I said earlier ignoring the merits of how you transcoded to DVCPRO your method is a lot better than many of the XDCAM workflows I here about. People are treating there original camera data as tapes but are neglecting to make copies of the transcoded quicktimes once they go through XDCAM transfer in FCP.

They often don’t have backups of their media drives (still very common) & if something happens to their media drive in the middle of the project and they renamed the clip names in XDCAM transfer (or even worse made subclips) they’ll have to waste time retranscoding the clips again in XDCAM transfer and then have to manually re-online the project which could be time-consuming at least and a nightmare at worse.

Cheers,
Gerry

[Matthew Romanis]

Your workflow makes sense to me, but only if all the logging is done form the “now” source tape and no log file has been generated from the EX files. Time code will not transfer when going out to tape from FCP. You will wind up having to try and insert edit onto a pre stripped matching code tape to carry over useful time code data.
I’ll happily admit that tape originated in camera (barring head clogs or VTR glitches) is still an easier media to hand off to clients. No need for travelling laptops and hard drives around country, but the tapeless workflow when it’s your own production is hard to beat.

[Craig Seeman]

Record to SDHC card. Hand to client. It can’t get any easier than that.
Client doesn’t even need a deck, just a Mac or Windows PC (reasonably new) and the free Sony Clip Browser. Is this difficult?

So you both want a copy. Copy the file. You both have masters now. Faster than real time too. You can’t do that with tape.

Generally my clients don’t need to leave the shoot with the master so I burn copies on to DL-DVD and send them the disk with a copy of Clip Browser on it.

What’s wrong with tape?
Tape is much bigger than SDHC so it’s not easy to carry away
Tape requires a compatible deck
Making dub of tape requires two decks and it’s only real time
Making dub of tape goes down a generation unless making digital clone from digital tape.
Client must have machine
Client needs much lower quality VHS or you need to burn DVD video to view at home.
Client needs time code on home viewing copy and you must make a window dub
Tape can have drop outs
Dub has problem then you need to see if it’s a bad dub or bad master
Client needs to shuttle through tape to find specific scenes
Run out of Professional tape during shoot and you must find a broadcast store

What’s good about SDHC
Small light so it’s easy to carry hours of storage
Client can play on any modern computer with free player
copies are all master quality
copies all have time code. No window dub needed
copies are many times faster than real time
no dropouts – only need to check that the file is good
easy to burn files on DVD if client doesn’t have SDHC reader (which they can get for a few bucks anyway)
near instant access to any clip
Need more during a shoot, good electronics stores may carry cards
I can pack a camera with 4 hours record time (2X 32GB SDHC cards) . . . or use inexpensive 16GB cards if client wants to leave with the masters

I started working in higher post facilities close to 30 years ago and tape can’t go away fast enough IMHO.

[Michael Slowe]

Craig, I don’t think anyone answered a question he put early on in the thread, namely, how do the tapleless guys (I’m one now) deal with the finished production off the timeline? I master to tape (only DVCAM) but would like to do better.

Michael Slowe