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Still nothing about Final Cut Pro…
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[Alex Elkins] “The various technical gotchas of FCP and the other NLEs are a barrier to entry. “
No…you have ALWAYS needed to know the technical part of editing. Unless you are a highly creative person who just needs to know PLAY, STOP, IN, OUT…to tell a story. Those types of editors are rare…the ONLY CREATIVE ones. That’s typical Hollywood Feature world…Network TV. The rest of us are our own assistants…we need to know how things work.
Avid always had the thing “this must be converted to an Avid codec before you can even start.” That’s how they remain so stable. FCP gets UNSTABLE because it is so open…you can bring in footage without converting…and when you do…trip! And many people trip because they don’t learn how to do things. They just buy FCP and throw stuff at it. Heck…an NLE just needs to be like that now, huh? forget learning things…make it EASY so I can just grab footage from this camera, that camera, YouTube, my cel phone…all sorts of frame rates and frame sizes…throw it all together and just WORK! Forget having to LEARN about the differences in frame rates, codecs, and all that. That’s too hard…
BS. Editors….GOOD editors…who didn’t have dedicated assistants at their beck and call, always knew that stuff. People today are just frickin’ lazy and just want the easy app that just works. They don’t want to know WHY it isn’t.
[Alex Elkins] ” Today’s aspiring editors (and many veterans) are forced to learn how to avoid the technical issues before getting into the important part of actually editing and improving their storytelling skills. “
Nothing new. Yesterdays editors and veterans had to do the same thing. People typcially learned on the job…as assistants. or apprentices. Learn as you go up the ladder. Now, people just buy a camera, buy an NLE, and BOOM, they are professionals. Sorry…it doesn’t work that way. This is a craft, just like any other. I don’t just buy a hammer and nails and BOOM, I’m a carpenter. I need to know that you need to put beams at an ANGLE if you want the house to be secure and not fall over if you lean on the wall. Need to know WHY that angle helps that. Architects…the artists…DEFINATELY need to know.
Camera people…you don’t just grab a camera and point and shoot…boom, done. Nope, gotta know what a shutter is, iris, how to adjust the knee…what happens when you boost the gain. Know how to light a set, that you need KEY, FILL and maybe a backlight. Throw a gobo on a light and put a neat pattern on the wall. Seen the guys who just grab a camera and shoot an interview? Flat picture, boring background…horrid lighting. OH, and AUDIO!
This is a technical field as well as creative. You need to know HOW to use the NLE before you start editing. know the limitations and work within them. If you don’t…just throw crap on the timeline and hope it works…well, you get problems. And then they come here whining that it doesn’t work, and what crap software this is…blah blah blah.
[Alex Elkins] “The cream rises to the top anyway, and the more competition there is the better craftsmen/women we all become.”
Exactly. The more people who jump in without knowing what they are doing, the more work I get to fix it…and then to work with that client again.
Shane
GETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD…don’t miss it.
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def -
[Shane Ross] “Nothing new. Yesterdays editors and veterans had to do the same thing. People typcially learned on the job…as assistants. or apprentices. Learn as you go up the ladder. Now, people just buy a camera, buy an NLE, and BOOM, they are professionals. Sorry…it doesn’t work that way. This is a craft, just like any other. I don’t just buy a hammer and nails and BOOM, I’m a carpenter.”
Shane.
as usual your commentary is right on the money.here here!!!!
gary adcock
Studio37Post and Production Workflow Consultant
Production and Post Stereographer
Chicago, ILhttps://blogs.creativecow.net/24640
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[Shane Ross] “No…you have ALWAYS needed to know the technical part of editing.”
I completely agree, but understanding how and why something works is different to being limited by a technical flaw or the lack of better technology being added to your arsenal.
[Shane Ross] “just want the easy app that just works”
What’s wrong with an app that ‘just works’? It doesn’t mean people don’t want to learn the inner workings of it. The ones who don’t, as you rightly say, end up losing clients because they have to come to you to fix things! Those of us who make use of both our creative AND analytical abilities tend to make the better editors, carpenters, composers, bricklayers whatever.
[Shane Ross] ” Now, people just buy a camera, buy an NLE, and BOOM, they are professionals.”
Sure, people will call themselves professional simply by owning the tools but we all know it doesn’t make it so. It goes back to what we agree about the cream rising to the top. My point is peoples’ work and education being hindered by technicalities is not a good thing. If people are so arrogant that they will call themselves professional when they aren’t then they deserve to lose clients to you and the rest of us who end up fixing peoples’ mistakes.
I don’t think we’re really disagreeing on much here. Stability of the software we use is key, but if an NLE can work with mixed formats, doesn’t need to ‘bake’ effects etc, etc, AND still remains stable then that’s fantastic! So if the competition does does do that, and Apple aren’t talking, then people are understandably concerned and weighing up the benefits of holding out vs jumping ship early.
Personally I hope that soon enough the technology will catch up with the marketing hype, and we can all just get on with the editing!Alex Elkins
Salad Daze Films – Freshly Tossed
Check out my latest addition to the Creative Cow Reels Section -
Can’t say it much better than what Shane has already addressed. I’ve said much more about what I call “prima donna” editors who don’t want to learn, but the same can applied to many of the new editors coming along who want the software to do everything so they don’t have to think.
https://blogs.creativecow.net/blog/3608/when-did-video-editors-become-prima-donnas
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Editor, Colorist, Director, Writer, Consultant, Author, Chef.
HD Post and Production
Biscardi Creative Media“Foul Water, Fiery Serpent” Winner, Best Documentary, LA Reel Film Festival.
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[Thomas Morter-Laing] “So the keynote has just finished, and Apple still seem to be neglecting the professional users, who are pretty responsible for getting them through their difficult times.”
Really? You were really expecting Steve Jobs to say something about the Professional Apps at a consumer event?
I’m always stumped by these “Woe is me” threads that start immediately after a consumer event.
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Editor, Colorist, Director, Writer, Consultant, Author, Chef.
HD Post and Production
Biscardi Creative Media“Foul Water, Fiery Serpent” Winner, Best Documentary, LA Reel Film Festival.
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Hey Walter,
I hope I’ve not come across as a prima donna editor! One of the greatest pleasures in my job is that I literally learn constantly. Check out my post history here on Creative Cow and you’ll see that. What I’m getting at is just that more streamlined tools make the time we spend in the office more effective, which is great for us and great for our clients. That’s why people purchase plugins, isn’t it – because they don’t accept the limitations of their standard toolset as a ‘this is how it is’ situation.
Yes, I love understanding why something does or doesn’t work and it’s imperative to my job. But those things that don’t work well or as advertised should be improved. If Avid/Prem/Vegas etc are improving and FCP isn’t then we all have to take a look at the tools we use and say “should I invest money and time on an alternative/addition?”I love FCP as many others do, but if we have to move on then that’s fine too. People just want to make educated decisions about the path they take because not every company or individual has the infrastructure to change at the drop of a hat and maintain productivity.
Anyway, the point of the original post was “why no news” and as everyone has said, nobody expected any.
Alex Elkins
Salad Daze Films – Freshly Tossed
Check out my latest addition to the Creative Cow Reels Section -
[Alex Elkins] “but understanding how and why something works is different to being limited by a technical flaw or the lack of better technology being added to your arsenal.”
How is FCP flawed? How is it NOT working for people? Being forced to convert to an editing codec is a flaw? Or are you saying the lack of it being able to do something CS5 can a flaw? CS5 does what it does due to the Mercury Engine…huge breakthrough, no doubt. So now it has a leg up. Was a while that FCP had the leg up…that Avid had the leg up. Just a bunch of leap frogging going on, that’s all.
[Alex Elkins] “What’s wrong with an app that ‘just works’?”
Nothing. But knowing HOW to make it JUST WORK seems to be something that people don’t want to know how to do. They want an app that will seem to know what the user wants to do. Adjust anything the editor throws at it to work in the way the user wants, no matter what. Sorry, tools don’t work that way. Gotta know the tool and how to use it. Pure and simple.
[Alex Elkins] ” If Avid/Prem/Vegas etc are improving and FCP isn’t then we all have to take a look at the tools we use and say “should I invest money and time on an alternative/addition?””
There is the fatal flaw in your argument…in your view. What makes you think that FCP isn’t improving? Did the new improved markers not affect you? Fine, they affect me in a BIG way. ProRes Proxy and ProRes 4444 nothing big to you? Well, they are big to many. Finally, a lightweight codec that carries an alpha channel (4444) and one that is full size yet offline for offline/online workflows (proxy). Heck, even the last update was an improvement…added better support for the Sony NX5 cameras.
These things leap frog. Avid Media Composer 2.8 to 3.0…nothing big. 3.0 to 4.0…pretty darn big with AMA. 4.0 to 5.0…huge! But before that…pretty darn stagnant. Adobe? CS2 to CS3….eeh. CS3 to CS4…decent. CS4 to CS5…huge. FCP 5 to FCP 6 was HUGE too…ProRes added. But what happens is that FCP leaps in front of Avid…and then remains for a little while and then Avid leaps ahead of FCP. The CS5 comes out of nowhere and goes in front of them (for certain workflows). Soon FCP might leap ahead again…we never know.
But again…I don’t know HOW MUCH I can stress this. Not every NLE is good for every editing situation. I’d HATE to use CS5 in a multi-editor shared storage/shared project reality TV cutting environment. Oh my GOD that would suck! Editors would say “what the hell is so good about CS5?” Because it doesn’t do what they need. CS5 does a LOT of things for many other editors who need the ability to go between Premiere, AE, PS…Encore…Soundbooth. All in one shops that do everything. Places that do corporate video or infomercials might throw a fit if they had to use Avid MC5 to edit and do graphics and all that. Just not quite as good at is as CS5 is.
But the main thing is that FCP IS progressing…is improving. That NLEs leapfrog in terms of who is better at any given time. FCP is behind now…that’s all. But it is always improving.
The biggest thing is for people to STOP bemoaning that Apple hasn’t mentioned this or that about the pro apps during some CONSUMER announcement. Or when a new month arrives. Or a new phone is announced. It’s getting old.
Shane
GETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD…don’t miss it.
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def -
[Shane Ross] “Exactly. The more people who jump in without knowing what they are doing, the more work I get to fix it…and then to work with that client again.”
Same here
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So does that mean then guys, that if (when) the day comes that final cut really DOES just work, and there is NEVER a situation where you need to actually know the technicalities of something because it literally works perfectly every time; that all you guys will have to give way to a younger generation of editors who don’t know technical stuff but can put together a story well?
Because what in noticing alis a little bit of “old skool” syndrome, like the guys who said “unless you know how to splice film together well and know the technicalities you can’t really edit…” then digital film, meaning it’s mainly on a computer, then OH NO adobe/ apple etc start making NLEs and everyone can do it….. But thankfully having a broad technical knowledge will help separate the cream a bit…. As well as obviously the ability to make a story well and know the intricacies of different effects why and when they work etc…. But they WILL eventually make something which renders a lot of it useless, meanin it doesn’t matter if you know “how” it works or anything because that knowledge won’t be useful… People will probably now argue that it’s a bit like Latin, you should know the roots of your language, but unfortunately there’s plenty of good English speaking people who don’t know it…
Don’t get me wrong, I get work frequently because I can edit AND know technical things which are helpful in a “pro” capacity, but it is inevitably going to be the case soon that it won’t help too much.Ps to everyone who came on PURELY to complain about me posting at the wrong time, I didn’t know it was apples consumer quarter, sorry; how DARE I mention it…. Lol now go and either a)get a life or b)type something which is universally beneficial- I only started with that to get the ball rolling, I wasn’t really being a primadonna… Lol
😀
Tom Morter-Laing
Certified Apple Product Proffessional, 2010
Degree; TV ProductioniMac 27″ intel i7 2.93GHz, 12GB RAM, ATI HD5750 [1GB GDDR5], 2TB Int. SATA with 2TB External HDD; (FW800).
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Telling a story requires good memory, attention to detail and the ability to plan ahead. Being a good assistant editors requires the same qualities. If your Final Cut project is 300 mb of a mess your cut is a mess too. Both creative and technical take root in the same basic human qualities and branch out at rather high level.
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