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stereoscopic & multi-cam
Posted by Arnie Schlissel on May 10, 2009 at 3:19 amSince I’m currently working for someone who’s into stereoscopic 3D, I might as well ask.
Can 2 Ki Pros be slaved together to record from 2 cameras in stereo?
And while we’re at it, how many Ki Pros can be slaved together for multi-camera shoots?
In either case, where does the genlock go? On the camera or on the Ki?
Arnie
Post production is not an afterthought!
https://www.arniepix.com/Luke Garza replied 15 years, 9 months ago 5 Members · 21 Replies -
21 Replies
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Jeremy Garchow
May 11, 2009 at 1:22 am[Arnie Schlissel] “Can 2 Ki Pros be slaved together to record from 2 cameras in stereo? “
Most definitely.
[Arnie Schlissel] “And while we’re at it, how many Ki Pros can be slaved together for multi-camera shoots? “
In theory, as many as you want. There are a number of different AJA has setup to control these little animals.
[Arnie Schlissel] “In either case, where does the genlock go? On the camera or on the Ki”
It would depend on your camera setup but, you can genlock the Ki through the component Y input.
Jeremy
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Arnie Schlissel
May 11, 2009 at 2:54 amThanks!
I have to say, this is a real breakthrough in price. Up until now, all of the less expensive DDRs have only connected via FW, and they’ve only recorded in either the camera native or some other heavily compressed format.
This is the least expensive DDR that has pro connectivity and a much less lossy codec.
Kudos to AJA!
Arnie
Post production is not an afterthought!
https://www.arniepix.com/ -
Luke Garza
May 11, 2009 at 9:23 amso does this mean if we have cameras with no timecode or genlock that we can still achieve this by using the kipro and if so how do you do it.
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Gary Adcock
May 11, 2009 at 12:39 pm[Arnie Schlissel] “Can 2 Ki Pros be slaved together to record from 2 cameras in stereo?
“Dual stream recording is not one of the announced features of the KiPro, while in theory that the LTC should suffice for TC.
There is currently not a proviso in the architecture “yet” to allow for recording control for multiple units from an outside source over the Rs422 as that protocol will not be enabled until a latter OS version of the device. Such updates have been pre-planned in the products release.
I will offer more insight into operations and production tricks as the KiPro’s release gets nearer.
gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production WorkflowsCheck out
https://www.aja.com/kiprotour/Inside look at the IoHD
https://library.creativecow.net/articles/adcock_gary/AJAIOHD.php -
Jeremy Garchow
May 11, 2009 at 1:57 pm[Jeremy Garchow] “It would depend on your camera setup but, you can genlock the Ki through the component Y input.”
i was wrong about this as I read the literature wrong. The Ki Pro will lock to the incoming analog source over the analog Y, but you can’t send genlock to the unit itself via analog Y.
I guess the easiest way would be to genlock the cameras if they have that capability and then send those locked signals to the Ki Pro.
Sorry for the confusion.
Jeremy
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Jeremy Garchow
May 11, 2009 at 2:12 pm[Luke Garza] “so does this mean if we have cameras with no timecode or genlock that we can still achieve this by using the kipro and if so how do you do it. “
Genlock will be a problem unless you run the video signals through converters that accept genlock and then send that now locked signal to the Ki Pro.
As far as timecode, the Ki Pro can be used as a tc generator, then you would simply send tc to the other unit via LTC out of the first unit and LTC in to the second unit.
Hope that makes sense.
Jeremy
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Gary Adcock
May 11, 2009 at 2:43 pm[Jeremy Garchow] “but you can’t send genlock to the unit itself via analog Y.
I guess the easiest way would be to genlock the cameras if they have that capability and then send those locked signals to the Ki Pro. “No you cannot use the “y” signal for genlock. Traditionally genlock is only used for live multi-camera switching where all of the cameras need to have frame/ field level synchronization so that when switching between cameras there is not a lag or jump due to the cameras being on different fields or fames.
Now if you are talking about syncing TC across multiple cameras, that is usually done via a “clock-it” box with timecode being generated from Audio. These boxes are then hung from the camera and make sure that the TC is continuous without regard to power cycling or battery changes.
Using a KiPro the process would be the same – an external device would need to generate a signal based on a time stamp generated somewhere else.- look at devices like a “clockit” box as portable house sync.
gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production WorkflowsCheck out
https://www.aja.com/kiprotour/Inside look at the IoHD
https://library.creativecow.net/articles/adcock_gary/AJAIOHD.php -
Jeremy Garchow
May 11, 2009 at 3:15 pm[gary adcock] “Traditionally genlock is only used for live multi-camera switching where all of the cameras need to have frame/ field level synchronization so that when switching between cameras there is not a lag or jump due to the cameras being on different fields or fames. “
Right, now with stereoscopic or multicamera recording, genlock comes in to play here as well. Ideally, you’d want frame/field accurate records.
Syncing tc is relatively easy with the Ki Pro, there’s more then one way to do it. It’s syncing the video sources that what Arnie and Luke are asking.
TC can be done a number of different ways with the Ki Pro with or without an external tc gen.
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Gary Adcock
May 11, 2009 at 4:02 pm[Jeremy Garchow] “Right, now with stereoscopic or multicamera recording, genlock comes in to play here as well. Ideally, you’d want frame/field accurate records. “
Since most systems that record stereoscopic for this are using what is called Dual Stream- where the device is capturing 2 distinct single link 4:2:2 video streams into the same source recorder -the vast majority being Sony SRW1 decks that are configured specifically for that purpose or with other DDRs like RaveHD or Stwo handling the streams in that same manner and do not require nor need genlock.
Genlock requires that the cameras be continually tethered to the sync source, something that is not always possible when not shooting in a live switched environment, while as I said previously that using clockit boxes will achieve the timecode and frame sync across multiple cameras when done correctly.
“Syncing tc is relatively easy with the Ki Pro, there’s more then one way to do it. It’s syncing the video sources that what Arnie and Luke are asking. “
Correct -but genlock is not just about syncing TC, its about syncing the physical hardware as well as the signal itself. Correctly genlocked cameras have had both vertical and horizontal blanking aligned, that would include both the PR188 or flags and frame rates and RP210 meta data tracks in addition to the base timecode.
Luke specifically asked if he could use a camera w/o genlock using the KiPro as the master – and since neither the camera or KiPro support genlock the answer is no,
While you could certainly sync the TC on the devices, Genlock would not be possible with the config as stated.
gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production WorkflowsCheck out
https://www.aja.com/kiprotour/Inside look at the IoHD
https://library.creativecow.net/articles/adcock_gary/AJAIOHD.php -
Ramona Howard
May 11, 2009 at 8:53 pmSince most systems that record stereoscopic for this are using what is called Dual Stream- where the device is capturing 2 distinct single link 4:2:2 video streams into the same source recorder -the vast majority being Sony SRW1 decks that are configured specifically for that purpose or with other DDRs like RaveHD or Stwo handling the streams in that same manner and do not require nor need genlock.
Gary,
First off, the Rave can do up to 2 stream of 4:4;4 🙂
and soon up to 4 streams of 4:2:2 🙂 🙂A single AJA board yields us 2 streams of 4:2:2, 2 boards sync’d (and yes Genlock is important) yields 2 streams of 4:4:4
Genlocking is not important when we are in independent dual I/O mode. That is where each device is handled or being used independently by different users. However each Rave virtual vtr is usually genlocked to the device(deck) that it is connected to.
In the world of stereo genlocking and phase sync is extremely important. Try it without it and your eyes will be ripped from the sockets….
Cheers,
RamonaFYI – There is a new Stereosopic forum on the cow, this thread would be perfect for it.
Play hard today, it may be raining tomorrow!
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