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stereoscopic & multi-cam
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[Ramona Howard] “In the world of stereo genlocking and phase sync is extremely important. Try it without it and your eyes will be ripped from the sockets….
“Exactly. In the case of the Ki Pro and ungenlockable cameras, you’d need to run two frame syncs that are timed to the same genlock source.
Jeremy
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Hello,
Jon Thorn pointed me to this thread in response to a demo we have coming up next week. If your interested in AJA products and Stereo, then you won’t want to miss this event
https://www.spectsoft.com/RaveManual-MayDemos.html
We will have several camera rigs in the mix and lots of toys!
Recording will be into a stereo Rave (as dual 4:4:4), we use AJA boards
Live 3D monitoring (Product is called 3d Live) and we use an AJA board there
Real-time 3D ProRes proxy recording, using the new KiProHope to see some of you there.
Cheers,
RamonaPlay hard today, it may be raining tomorrow!
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[Ramona Howard] “First off, the Rave can do up to 2 stream of 4:4;4 🙂 “
yes I do know that- i was not playing favorites-
I like your stuff as much as I do Stwo’s – I just have more experience on their products.[Ramona Howard] “In the world of stereo genlocking and phase sync is extremely important. Try it without it and your eyes will be ripped from the sockets”
I have only worked on a couple of Stereoscopic shoots that were multi-camera one was a RED project and the other we ran all 4 streams into a single recorder. Of course working Dual Stream to a single device offers the recordist assurance that the genlock and phase sync is correctly aligned, it is the main reason that I mentioned that for stereo recording it is best to be handled with a single device.
Am I correct in assuming that Unfortunately the process is not going to be as simple or as easy as the original poster thought when using devices that were not intended to be genlocked together?
gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production WorkflowsCheck out
https://www.aja.com/kiprotour/Inside look at the IoHD
https://library.creativecow.net/articles/adcock_gary/AJAIOHD.php -
[Ramona Howard] “In the world of stereo genlocking and phase sync is extremely important. Try it without it and your eyes will be ripped from the sockets….”
This is a big problem when working with cheaper cameras, like HDV. the lack of genlock means that you can easily be a little off sync, maybe a half or quarter frame. In some situations it can really ruin the effect. Your eyes are trying to process separate pieces of information, and they don’t quite match.
Arnie
Post production is not an afterthought!
https://www.arniepix.com/ -
Just making sure everyone else knows 🙂
simple. ha!
The recorder can’t magically sync images, so yes it is important that everything be genlocked together arriving at the recorder. In the case of the Red, you can have genlock at the sensor level and not at the SDI output level, so that is an added headache.
Phase is soooo important in stereo. If you simply have images that are out of sync (one eye written, before the other) that you can deal with as long as it is consistent BUT you could also have out of phase, where the lines in the frames are not in sync. That is a much harder issue to deal with and can not be used in stereo. This is called temporal disparity (causes kinda a wobble up and down, is the best way I can describe it)
And yes, the RED will give you that also on some set-ups.
We will be showing all this off at next weeks demo since we have the ability to demonstrate what all this looks like with using our 3d Live solution.
Gary, hope you can make it.
Cheers,
RamonaPlay hard today, it may be raining tomorrow!
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I dont plan on doing any 3d stero stuff but i wanted to do a few interviews with 2 or 3 cams with no genlock or tc on cams. What would ideally be best way to achieve this with kipro, sorry about not stating that since my need is no where near what you guys are talking about. And if not a good effective way with kipro i guess i can always just sync up in post old fashioned way.
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[Luke Garza] “I dont plan on doing any 3d stero stuff but i wanted to do a few interviews with 2 or 3 cams with no genlock or tc on cams. What would ideally be best way to achieve this with kipro,”
Oh, you’re good dude. You need one Ki pro per camera and you can use on Ki Pro as a tc generator and send that tc via LTC to each Ki. There are a number of different ways to start and stop the Ki Pro’s in tandem. You might not have dead on sync due to no genlock, but in that type of situation, a 60th (or 50th or whatever Hz you are working in) won’t matter too much.
What kind of cameras are you using?
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[Ramona Howard] “Gary, hope you can make it. “
Sorry Ramona,
but I won’t be able to make it, I am scheduled to be in grass valley working on an upcoming project.all the best.
gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production WorkflowsCheck out
https://www.aja.com/kiprotour/Inside look at the IoHD
https://library.creativecow.net/articles/adcock_gary/AJAIOHD.php -
2 canon xh a1s and i also have a hv30 if need a 3rd. so i would go compenant from xha1 and xrl mic into kipro on each one then if need be hdmi from hv30 into kipro. I have never done the tc thing you spoke oh so could you explain it a litter more.
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[Luke Garza] “I have never done the tc thing you spoke oh so could you explain it a litter more. “
Timecode is encoded to an audio signal of sorts. It can be carried by any professional video cable and can be understood by anything that understands LTC. Many professional cameras and recording devices have ‘TC In’ and ‘TC Out’ ports so that you whole entire production can share the same time code which makes things a lot easier to sync in post.
For your setup, you would designate one of your Ki Pros as the master tc generator via the menus (usually this means setting the TC to INT for internal). You would then loop out of the LTC Out port with a BNC cable out of the back of that unit and connect it to the LTC In of the second Ki Pro. You would then tell that second Ki Pro to take it’s TC from the LTC In port (sometimes designated EXT for external timecode). If you have a third, you’d do the same thing, loop out of the second unit into the third. Depending on how you set up all three Ki Pros and what kind of tc you are running (free run or record run) you could control that first Ki Pro and the rest would follow suit. As I have mentioned there are a number of ways to do this with the Ki Pro and you would set it up the way that makes sense to your particular needs.
Video from each camera would run to it’s own Ki pro, as would audio if you need that many channels, if not you can loop audio out from one Ki Pro to the other so that all the Ki’s are getting the same audio.
Hope that makes sense.
Jeremy
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