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Spatial awareness and memory recall
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[Aindreas Gallagher] “there you go – as opposed to my usual carry on – I actually believe there is validity to the concern about Apple’s approach to editing assets.
People will argue that proliferating media renders classical approaches redundant given the volume – I say that is wrong. I have dealt with very heavy loads (24 hours of material for a 2.30 piece) and you get by fine if you work hard at it.
“No, no and a thousand times no.
I can’t believe you’re still flogging this horse.
X makes absolutely NO “classical approaches redundant.” That’s an amazingly stupid reduction of how X actually works.
Want to “see” your clips? Click on the root (top) level of the event. BINGO – all your clips are spread out in EXACTLY the same iconic view as in Legacy.
X does NOT limit your ability to navigate visually in any way shape or form. (Unless you stopped investigating X’s organization at step 2 of it’s numerous possibilities.)
The database tool in the EB has ONE primary function. To allow the USER to self-determine secondary sort criteria that THEY find useful. Period. End of story.
It REQUIRES nothing. It obscures nothing. It gives the user OPTIONS. That’s ALL.
Anyone who’s EVER used a database understands that this is what they ALL do. They allow you to organize alternate views of the SAME data. To argue that a database approach OBSCURE data is INSANE. They only OBSCURE data if you’re to inexperienced or unschooled to understand how to set them up and use them. For anyone who DOES – they instinctively understand that unless the user ELECTS to create views that obscure something in order to enable them to focus on a subset – the whole reason database approaches solve problems is that they grow ever more powerful the more they’re used.
You are working so damn hard to try to justify your long held contempt for X that you’ve stretched into the realm of fantasy.
X is NOT a system designed around the principals of constraint (contrary to your extremely limited point of view, sir) – It’s a system built around the concepts of offering the user tools to help them FOCUS and SEARCH and SORT large masses of data in a world increasingly flooded with the same.
If you don’t get that – then yes, I’ll say it again, you simply don’t “get” FCP-X. Which given your history that’s the least surprising thing written this month in this forum.
Folks, if you want a decent review of a local Mexican, or Chinese, or Thai food restaurant, here’s a tip. Don’t give much weight to the critic who self-admittedly doesn’t LIKE, EAT, or have very much experience with or knowledge about that particular type of food. And certainly NOT the writing of someone who states publicaly, over and over and over again that they literally can’t STAND that type of food.
Listen to the people who USE it daily. They know more.
Period.
Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com – video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.
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[Andy Field] “FCP7 made virtual clip reals easy – OPTION DOUBLE CLICK to open the virtual reel as a viewer — add in and out points — CMD drag to timeline to edit only the original underlying clip into a new timeline.
Not sure if this is possible in FCP X — Hope they are working on that work flow in Adobe Premiere.”
Sigh.
Too much FUD in this thread to even begin to address.
But this one is silly. Want “REEL” IDs? Takes maybe 30 seconds to go to the incredible custom keyword generator built into X and setup a concatenated REEL ID tag and have X apply it to clips you toss into a smart collection. Or apply to a found set you’ve pre-defined. Or apply to a folder or card or drive on import.
X is a DATABASE at it’s heart. Know what databases do REALLY well? They sort, sift and allow you to append NEW information to existing information.
If “REEL” Info makes you happy, you can be DELIRIOUS in X. You just have to lean how.
If an editor doesn’t understand this. They simply don’t understand X.
FWIW.
Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com – video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.
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[Bill Davis] “But this one is silly. Want “REEL” IDs? Takes maybe 30 seconds to go to the incredible custom keyword generator built into X and setup a concatenated REEL ID tag and have X apply it to clips you toss into a smart collection. “
I’m afraid you misunderstood his interpretation of “reel”. He’s talking about an assembly of selects to a timeline/sequence. And then cutting from that selects “reel” (i.e. timeline).
– Oliver
Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com -
I’ve got a 1200 in the basement I’ll loan you. Just test it with a throwaway tape first.
Best,
John -
[Bill Davis] “You are working so damn hard to try to justify your long held contempt for X that you’ve stretched into the realm of fantasy.”
[Bill Davis] “If you don’t get that – then yes, I’ll say it again, you simply don’t “get” FCP-X. Which given your history that’s the least surprising thing written this month in this forum.”
[Bill Davis] “Listen to the people who USE it daily. They know more.
Period.”
This has been such an interesting and civil thread. Can we stay on topic please? Everyone agrees that tag and database-driven organization is a powerful, useful tool. What does this have to do with spatial awareness and memory recall?
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David Lawrence
art~media~design~research
propaganda.com
publicmattersgroup.com
facebook.com/dlawrence
twitter.com/dhl -
Why the sigh? And the condescending tone? I simply said how I like to work. It wasn’t a personal attack. And I truly didn’t know if you could replicate that in fcp x as I don’t use it much.
Why are so many answers and comments laced with vitriol here?
So you are saying you can tag a group of clips and then click on something that makes it one log-able scrub-able exportable and then reimport able XML reel? If so. Very cool
Andy Field
FieldVision Productions
N. Bethesda, Maryland 20852 -
[Andy Field] “So you are saying you can tag a group of clips and then click on something that makes it one log-able scrub-able exportable and then reimport able XML reel? If so. Very cool”
That’s not really how it works. You can tag clips with a Reel ID, or more to your question, add keywords that can be sorted into a Keyword or Smart Collection (similar to how Mail, iPhoto and Aperture work). You end up with a Smart Collection or Keyword Collection (think bin of subclips) that are sorted based on your tagging.
Then sort these by TC or alphabetically or other fields, select all and edit to a Project (timeline, sequence).
Next, you can turn this timeline into a Compound Clip (think nested sequence) which ends up in your Event and can be used as a source for your edit . Pick your in/outs and edit to clean Project. Use the “break apart items” if you want to un-nest the clips on this new timeline.
I think that’s pretty close to the way your workflow would happen in FCP X.
– Oliver
Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com -
[David Lawrence] “Everyone agrees that tag and database-driven organization is a powerful, useful tool. “
yes completely. Mind you, he did call me “sir” somewhere in that morass of caps and invective, so thats something.
https://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics
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[David Lawrence] “is when I need to rescue a scene and the perfect shot is something I remember but was shot with an entirely different purpose in mind.”
yes exactly – Half the reason why I manhandle and re-order the footage items is to develop links in the head – physically shunting stuff around re-enforces it for me.
Again – the tagging database system in X is quite brilliant and new – but I think, and some X proponents have said on this thread, that apple could probably introduce some spatial aspects without overly clouding the tagging metaphor.
Its a question of how tight they want to hold onto the single brick interface. So far all they will allow are the kind of Huds you see for Red material.
https://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics
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Of course you can select more than one keyword collection to have them presented at the same time in the event list or clip view (and then sort them secondarily there).
Interesting to hear of others workflows. I didn’t understand the premise of Aindreas’s workflow at first. And then I realized that I essentially always worked in FCP legacy the way that FCPX presents clips (listview sorting of bins/clips in the browser almost 100% of the time). Perhaps it’s my memory but this has always worked for me whether called bins or keyword collections. And I’ve worked on feature length documentaries with 100+ hours of footage…
I do tend to use timelines to rough out interviews and B-Roll. And I still do that in FCPX in some cases. But I find that FCPX event functionality makes it so I don’t need to use timelines in the same fashion quite as much.
Just got done with a 4 minute edit referencing about 20 hours of footage. My feeling is that I am more efficiently able to remember and find footage in FCPX than I am in FCP legacy. But I don’t know if that is because my visual memory is improving or if FCPX is better at visual organization with respect to my workflow. I am very careful about naming and comments/notes to facilitate searching.
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