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So now that we have Libraries, why do we need Events?
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[Aindreas Gallagher] “yarp, I’d read that events were pretty much alive and well in package contents alright – it feels like apple put a box around the whole thing, as opposed to negating all the originally coded event rules. although the fact the they are now walls within a library just feels weird reading it.”
Yes, and that’s exactly right. I really don’t mind the Library structure as it makes things easier on a Finder level, and being able to move media in and out of them is handy, but I just don’t think I like how Events work for now. I will have to mess with it longer, but for now, I don’t think I like it.
[Aindreas Gallagher] “its an interesting question tho – If anyone can invoke OS level read only lock controls to late third parties on a first come first served basis for event folders within the package contents of a library – you’d have to figure its the person who wrote both the operating system and the application that produced the package. If apple did that then you’d basically have avid carry on right? As long as they provide visibility to the package content events for another FCPX user? “
Pretty much. You’d have to figure out how to open up the Library to multiple users and be able to save it without damage to either user, which is not a trivial process.
[Aindreas Gallagher] “You’d wonder if they could implement the in app live view of other projects (fcp7 style) premiere has going within the media browser – that seems a long shot given they would have to build in the kind of app internal media browser they had in soundtrack pro and stuff?”
If you could mount another person’s Events (and subsequent projects) you would be able to view them, you jut couldn’t modify them. Then you could dupe a copy to your Event that is writable and do what you need to do.
One done, they would then grab it back from you if needed.
It seems like this would be better served through metadata, but I am not a programmer.
[Aindreas Gallagher] “premiere, the rental scum, really is pretty cool that way in CC – the media browser functions as a comparable live view into an FCPX library where you can selectively pick up sequences and footage items. And i think they solved master clip stuff – although not sure.
how are adobe as third parties pulling that off anyway?”
Right, but Pr doesn’t have a central file conglomerate, such as a Library. So, as an archiver, you’d have to try and gather everyone’s disparate Pr Project files (and anything else you may need, like Dynamically linked Ae files, etc).
I don’t know how 3rd parties handle it, unfortunately.
[Aindreas Gallagher] “you’d think apple would finally throw their hands up and start implementing slightly more functional, if complex usage scenarios.”
Here’s hoping…
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[Jeremy Garchow] “Right, but Pr doesn’t have a central file conglomerate, such as a Library. So, as an archiver, you’d have to try and gather everyone’s disparate Pr Project files (and anything else you may need, like Dynamically linked Ae files, etc).
I don’t know how 3rd parties handle it, unfortunately.
“sorry – stupidly phrased – I meant adobe getting it done as third parties to the operating system they are working in – premiere basically affords near avid behaviour now whereby you can inspect another live premiere project in action, copy across sequences and footage items, with that premiere project viewable live in your media browser within your own running premiere app. as in – its not finder level avid bin open – but once in your own active copy of premiere, via the media browser, you have an awful lot of live access to other running premiere projects. you can inspect and copy from the entire hierarchy of another live running premiere project open on another machine – bin/folders, sequences movies stills etc. I think that doesn’t yet get talked about a ton?
https://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics
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We have not even mentioned the idea of having Mavericks tags follow media into the world that FCPx creates. Jeremy is onto something with using metadata to really organize everything.
Why can’t I tag media before I even import it? To have everything lock at the event level is to have everybody tag shots multiple times. Not on is that redundant but it does not really seem like a modern way to work collectively. With premiere there will be a lot of nested projects that will have to travel back and forth bloating project sizes and confusing versions of edits. I think that Final cut could do a lap on everybody if they really double down on tags/collections that are truly visible in real time to whomever is working within a particular library. I tag a clip or favorite a bite and everybody can see that.
Would that be useful or chaos?
mind blown,
James
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[James Sullivan] “We have not even mentioned the idea of having Mavericks tags follow media into the world that FCPx creates. Jeremy is onto something with using metadata to really organize everything.
Why can’t I tag media before I even import it? “
not to rain on it – but would apple be likely to fundamentally structure freeform OSX finder object tags specifically for tied FCPX metadata integration within events?
It would want to be a trivial engineering pursuit wouldn’t it? given the user catchment? with no new revenue apparently now coming from current X users?what would be the rational reason for that effort?
https://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics
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Rain is necessary, no worries. I have to say I have enjoyed your sparring in this very forum.
I would argue that I am a Final Cut Generation editor. I am always trying to find the awesome. If I am going to spend time in front of a screen I want it to be worth it. FCPx is supposed to be the new paradigm of our future as editorial animals. Let’s make it better for everybody.
I am full of hate for a timeline that still makes no sense to me but I am still pulling for apple. (Roles need to trump any magnetism, and audio crossfades should not have to create extra layers of “tracks”) I am giving apple to 10.3 before I realize that I have been dumped.
To summarize the current NLE craziness from my reality:
1) Final cut Legacy is really really old. It uses one tenth of the computer hosting it and does not like new anything. It still works and I am fast and reliable. Everything I hate about it will never change.
2) Premiere is great except it needs a mezzanine codec and a better way to offline/online. (From tape while I am asking) Also multiple projects open at the same time (Then we can talk about final cut 8 existing)
3) Avid is still Avid which is still the problem. It is all more of a feeling then the fact that they are a rock solid dependable offline/online pipeline. They killed the DS which to me means that Final Cut did more harm then good. (Please sell it to the Foundry or somebody and bring it to MAC OS)
Apple however can still build an edit suite from the silicon up. We just have to hate hard enough for them to do it our way.
To me Final Cut Pro X is still a single seat, straight to youtube, audio mixing nightmare. But if they cut out the stupid stuff and add some tags that stick at the finder level then I will be your uncle. Also the new coffee grinder™ is showing some promise. Just remember that Siri can read lips or we will all be floating in space.
Make it rain,
James
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[Brett Sherman] “I think just about everyone is going to create an event that just contains projects. “
I know that’s the first thing that I did : )
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[Aindreas Gallagher] “sorry – stupidly phrased – I meant adobe getting it done as third parties to the operating system they are working in – premiere basically affords near avid behaviour now whereby you can inspect another live premiere project in action, copy across sequences and footage items, with that premiere project viewable live in your media browser within your own running premiere app. as in – its not finder level avid bin open – but once in your own active copy of premiere, via the media browser, you have an awful lot of live access to other running premiere projects. you can inspect and copy from the entire hierarchy of another live running premiere project open on another machine – bin/folders, sequences movies stills etc. I think that doesn’t yet get talked about a ton?”
I see what you mean.
The difference with Avid is that there is a user that has read/write control of a bin. In that bin can be organization and sequences.
Other users, in the same ‘project’ or space (or really a folder) can only read (read-only) that bin, but have their own bin to make adjustments, drag elements into, etc, as well as view footage. With Avid, changing the metadata on a clip (such as clip name, etc) is usually frowned upon. Users can add their own metadata in columns. Columns for chrissakes.
Then, the user that has read/write can give that bin up for another user to take on write privileges.
It’s a good system. It’s very solid and Avid has done a great job with it, but if you were to start writing a collaborative workflow today, is that what you would come up with?
Pr, allows you to browse other people’s projects, but it doesn’t really take in to account how you connect those two users projects when it comes time to archive, let alone all the dynamic/direct link stuff.
Jeremy
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I’ve been messing around with Tags in Mavericks over the break as well.
It’s the metadata equivalent of a keyword collection in X.
Filenames are almost irrelevant as is file location.
Before anyone freaks out, I am not saying that file name and location are irrelevant. Of course they are relevant.
It would be very cool if X Tags and Mavs Tags interacted. Right now they don’t seem to interact very much, if at all.
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yeah – lets not forget the real issue is I barely know what I’m talking about. haven’t worked a day in an avid shared environment for instance.
as to whether avid is the best approach – that is beyond me. although i wonder if it goes like churchill’s quote on democracy.
larry jordan did a long interview with an adobe dude about anywhere – he said that at one point they were allowing live simultaneous access to the same timeline. they thought it was kind of cool until they realised it was madness.I guess in a way the question maybe isn’t how its supposed to work as much as what is it supposed to do? you have concerns about the collaboration not interfering with functional archiving – so thats an issue – but I guess that would be what i would wonder – if avid isn’t the one and only answer, what essential functions describe a happy shared edit environment?
https://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics
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[Jeremy Garchow] “It would be very cool if X Tags and Mavs Tags interacted. Right now they don’t seem to interact very much, if at all.”
Ditto for Smart Folders at the finder level being available via the media browser in FCPx
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