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So now that we have Libraries, why do we need Events?
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[Andy Neil] “Couldn’t it just be step one in a shared collaborative workflow structure? “
Well, yes, that’s what I admitted to. But then, we aren’t there yet.
Do you think Apple will go forth with “event locking”?
If they will, then this structure makes at least a bit of sense. If they aren’t, then why ‘hobble’ what was a great metadata and category system?
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[alban egger] “For me I believe Events will be a way to share media around. I already used the “Copy Event to Library” command a few times. Works great and allows to put certain parts of jobs into external Disks/Libraries/Events.”
Right, but if we were to do away with Events, we could have a “Copy Keyword to Library” or “Copy Folder to Library” and have the same Library media management controls as we do today with Events and Projects.
It just seems weird to have to twirl down a Library, then twirl down Events, and then each Event has it’s own organization. An Event can be a folder (for human visual organization) and then the media should be available to all folders (or Events) instead of cordoned off and having to copy clips between Events in the same Library.
The only thing that is making sense to me is ‘Event locking’ on the Finder level, but since read only databases aren’t allowed in FCPX, it won’t work for quite some time.
Jeremy
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[Jeremy Garchow] “Do you think Apple will go forth with “event locking”? “
Yes. Or else they’ll leave the door open for 3rd parties to do it.
[Jeremy Garchow] “If they aren’t, then why ‘hobble’ what was a great metadata and category system?”
I don’t see how it hobbles anything.
Andy
https://www.timesavertutorials.com
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[Andy Neil] “I don’t see how it hobbles anything.”
It’s not really hobbling, but it does make things harder when there’s multiple Events in a Library.
Events, and the Metadata and Projects they house are separate entities within a Library.
This means that if you want to have a singular piece of metadata follow any clip or Project in a given Library, no matter where it is in the Event structure, you can’t.
Jeremy
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[Jeremy Garchow] “I really really liked that in FCP 10.0, that footage can be here AND there (in this collection AND that collection).”
yeah – that felt instinctively cool to me – it goes to the whole diffuse tagging of footage thing.
[Jeremy Garchow] “Why have Events at all? “
should have been clearer – that’s basically what I meant – you wouldn’t think in application buckets need to be any stronger than the rules of a folder. or a bin as they called the folder in 7 – I was snark joking about calling the folders events.
seeing as how you’re mounting libraries the way you mounted events, It doesn’t make sense to keep the serious strictures of events within the new library container – folders should basically do it really for sub organisation within a library. given created events have no external reality in the finder now.
(except inside package contents of the library? are they keeping the event rules because they are forced to replicate inside FCPX the footage copy actions they are having to do inside the package contents of the library in the finder?)https://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics
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Jeremy, I agree with you. If collections are better than bins, then why wouldn’t collections be better than events?
[Jeremy Garchow] “Do you think Apple will go forth with “event locking”?”
Why lock at the event level?
This is a bit back-of-the-napkin, but I think locking should happen at the sequence level.
I think I’d want to allow all users to organize (keyword ranges, build collections) any asset in the library. These could be stored in a real multi-user database, or they could be stored in per-user databases on the shared filesystem, with each user have read/write access to their own database and read-only access to others’ databases — essentially, multiple individual overlapping Avid bins that the software dynamically and invisibly coalesces.
The owner of any piece of metadata thus becomes another piece of metadata that itself can be used in collections (i.e., see only my keywords, see mine and Jeremy’s keywords, see all keywords, etc.).
Locking at the bin/event level splits shared editorial organizationally within the project, arguably locking too much stuff. Locking at the sequence level splits shared editorial functionally, providing separation between organization and editorial.
Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog – What I’m thinking when my workstation’s thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events -
[Aindreas Gallagher] “(except inside package contents of the library? are they keeping the event rules because they are forced to replicate inside FCPX the footage copy actions they are having to do inside the package contents of the library in the finder?)
“Yes.
Events are structured nearly the exact same way as they were in 10.0, except they now live in a Library, and Libraries can live anywhere.
An Event corresponds to a folder in the Library, like this (see pictures):
it also seems like it could lead to further read-only database sharing, but that is all conjecture.
So, if one WERE to be able to lock off an Event as read-only, and Apple allowed a read-only mount (which they currently don’t, which means that 3rd parties can’t do anything at this time) all you’d have to do is lock off that folder, which is really locking off the Event.
As someone who has liked where FCPX has been going since about Day 2, I knew that Apple would make it better. I knew it had it’s shortcomings, but the metadata foundation and even the timeline itself, had decent beginnings and I could see where it might go with time and development.
But even I have doubts on whether Apple will make an Avid like sharing environment.
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[Walter Soyka] “Why lock at the event level? “
If there is any explanation, in the current structure, it seems logical as it would be making the corresponding Event folder and it’s contents read only. This is pretty easy to do from a programming standpoint.
It is really close to Avid bin locking, if this will be the case.
Avid bin locking is great, but is it the best way to go about things in a modern environment?
Asked another way, since we (the royal we) have the opportunity to start fresh, would bin locking be the solution that we would come up with?
[Walter Soyka] “The owner of any piece of metadata thus becomes another piece of metadata that itself can be used in collections (i.e., see only my keywords, see mine and Jeremy’s keywords, see all keywords, etc.).
Locking at the bin/event level splits shared editorial organizationally within the project, arguably locking too much stuff. Locking at the sequence level splits shared editorial functionally, providing separation between organization and editorial.”
That is a great way to explain it, and another reason why I thought that having the Projects and Events in 10.0 separate wasn’t necessarily a bad thing. Since all the organization is simply metadata, even the organization (keywords, et al) could travel at the sequence level, which I thought might become a next level of sharing.
It seems to me, that read/write locking of metadata, instead representative file locations, seems to be a more modern approach.
I am not saying it’s easier programmatically, but it does seem like it would be the most flexible.
Jeremy
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[Jeremy Garchow] “An Event corresponds to a folder in the Library, like this (see pictures):”
yarp, I’d read that events were pretty much alive and well in package contents alright – it feels like apple put a box around the whole thing, as opposed to negating all the originally coded event rules. although the fact the they are now walls within a library just feels weird reading it.
[Jeremy Garchow] “But even I have doubts on whether Apple will make an Avid like sharing environment.”
its an interesting question tho – If anyone can invoke OS level read only lock controls to late third parties on a first come first served basis for event folders within the package contents of a library – you’d have to figure its the person who wrote both the operating system and the application that produced the package. If apple did that then you’d basically have avid carry on right? As long as they provide visibility to the package content events for another FCPX user?
You’d wonder if they could implement the in app live view of other projects (fcp7 style) premiere has going within the media browser – that seems a long shot given they would have to build in the kind of app internal media browser they had in soundtrack pro and stuff? does motion still have that thing?
premiere, the rental scum, really is pretty cool that way in CC – the media browser functions as a comparable live view into an FCPX library where you can selectively pick up sequences and footage items. And i think they solved master clip stuff – although not sure.
how are adobe as third parties pulling that off anyway?
again though – if this app is intended as a come hither to very serious hardware, and 4K workflows, and it really is their poster boy for the tube,
you’d think apple would finally throw their hands up and start implementing slightly more functional, if complex usage scenarios.https://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics
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[Walter Soyka] “Jeremy, I agree with you. If collections are better than bins, then why wouldn’t collections be better than events?”
apple might feel that collections aren’t exactly the right kind of mental objects to operate as event/folder level objects – given they are explicitly tag collections. it feels a little threadbare to have them also operate as discrete transportable physical containers, given they actually represent metadata tags.
am i right there?
given apple have walked things back in a big way by creating a new super container with libraries, they might be inclined to reverse slowly.
Its hard on one level to see how they can completely remove the newly intermediate event object that contains meta data tag collections.but reading it, the problem is that library event sub-sets are far more legally islands now than they were when they were exposed as top level?
nothing like bullsh*tting software you rarely use. it is interesting tho.
https://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics
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