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Shooting in 24p, editing in 30p, easiest workflow?
I can’t seem to find an article on this that isn’t years and years old. I’m shooting on a DVX100A, using FCP 5.0.4. I’m shooting commercials for a company, getting paid fairly small amounts to go shoot the video, get dozens of quick, tiny little cut-to shots and a few interviews and testimonials, and cut it together myself. It really isn’t worth it to sit and log every single tiny shot off the camera individually for the amount I’m making, or struggle with interlacing issues. If it’s going to be a huge pain, I’ll shoot 30p, because I’m just not getting paid much, but I want it to look good because I’ll be getting ingoing work, and this time of year sucks for freelance. So, what should I be doing to use 24p footage in a 30p timeline (yes, they specifically want 30p output, but said a lot of their shooters shoot 24p native).
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37 Replies
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[Charles House] “I can’t seem to find an article on this that isn’t years and years old. “
Well your camera is years old, your software is years old, why would the articles be ok.BUT what you are trying to do makes no sense. If you are outputting 30p then you should be shooting 30p.
With that camera you have two 24 modes:
24p – to edit in a 29.97 interlaced timeline
or
24pA – to edit in a 23.98 progressive timeline. -
Are these commercials for the web or broadcast or both?
Jason Jenkins
Flowmotion Media
Video production… with style! -
Online streaming.
Dave, we really don’t, and probably won’t ever see, eye to eye.
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The issue with shooting 30p is, this is my first job with this client. It looks like dogshit, as most shooters regard 30p native for looking, and I won’t be hired again, in favor of guys shooting 24p to 30p timelines.
You really like to feel like you’re right about things, don’t you David? Please, do me a big favor, as I asked in my previous posts: if I’ve posted a topic, just stay out of it. We don’t get along, I don’t agree with you, ever, and I strongly dislike your attitude. Much appreciated.
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But he’s logical and correct. I can’t help think you’re misunderstanding something because your situation doesn’t add up. 24p at 30p simply duplicates every 4th frame. The worst cadence you could ask for. It’s not done anywhere I can think of. 24p broadcast as SD tv would have interlaced pulldown added to eliminate the stuttered frame and create smooth motion. 24p broadcast as 720p would be at 60p to achieve the same effect. 24p broadcast at 1080i would have the same Interlaced pulldown. 24p on a Hollywood DVD would either have interlaced pulldown for 4:3 interlaced TVs or would play back native 24p on an LCD. 24p at 30p isn’t a very optimal or accepted practice. What happens when you add graphics or motion effects that are interacting on another timebase than the 24p footage? It would exaggerate the stutter.for example a logo flying across the screen would move at 30p, while the footage behind it would freeze frame momentarily while the graphic continues to move. This would occur on 20% of the frames.
If these projects are solely for the web, then why wouldn’t the edit be 24p? The files or streams would be 20% smaller. They wouldn’t have stutter issues, etc.
You’re sure they don’t want 24p with interlaced pulldown?
Otherwise,nthe answer to your workflow question is there isn’t really a workflow problem. Drop 24p in a 30p timeline and edit away. FCP doesn’t do anything but repeat every 4th frame.
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29.97. That’s what I’m talking about. As I’ve already expressed. I don’t know why they don’t want 24p, but they don’t. They want 30p. And that’s what I’ll give them.
My issue with David is his vehement attitude towards the preference for 24p. He’s expressed it before, along with other similar, snide attitudes about 24p and the process of shooting with it, and I don’t agree with him. It clearly looks better, and anyone but an untrained monkey or perhaps a very bitter old videographer would agree.
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Understandably one may prefer progressive to interlaced. And of course different frame rates are more suited to particular shooting situations. Clearly Dave has a disdain for shooting 24p for a 30fps workflow and thinks that there isn’t much point. But flat out stating that a certain frame rate looks better than another frame rate is as naive as stating a particular aperture looks better than another.
24fps main advantage is space savings in the digital world of DVDs and the internet. And in the world of international distribution, it conforms well to 25fps or can have pull down added to create interlaced 30fps. It’s 20% cheaper if you’re actually shooting film. 20% less to carry around for that matter. There’s lots of reasons to like 24p. But I don’t think “it looks better to anyone but an untrained monkey” is one of them.
Odd that you’d have to train the monkey to like 24p. 🙂
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I’ll take a stab at this and hope I won’t get my head bit off. You can shoot in 24p mode on the DVX100 which means you are already shooting with pulldown on to tape. This is 29.97 on tape with a 24fps look. You don’t need to mess with pull up or additional pulldown. You just capture as regular 29.97 footage.
I haven’t done this in years but I don’t think anything has changed.
Best,
CHL
Chi-Ho Lee
Film & Television Editor
Apple Certified Final Cut Pro Trainer
http://www.chiholee.com -
So you mean if I start with a 29.97 timeline, 24p will import into that, no problems? That’s good to know, thank you. And I don’t mean to bite off any heads, I just think David is a bit of putz. We’ve had works prior and he seems to still like to interject.
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Yes, it should edit into the 29.97 seq fine since it is technically 29.97fps clips. Although this is assuming you captured it as 29.97.
Chi-Ho Lee
Film & Television Editor
Apple Certified Final Cut Pro Trainer
http://www.chiholee.com
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