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Roles: got ’em to work.
Alright, I think I get it. Select clips –> assign role.
I can use the minimize button to shrink the tracks that I’ve already assigned, and then assign (or re-assign) the remaining tracks. Makes sense.
Not totally intuitive. I would have missed the button in the timeline index if Craig hadn’t said anything about it. (Thanks Craig)
I’m so glad the help file is so helpful here. #sarc
So I actually tried it. A very recently edited story that I had to export 4 times to get the stem tracks was still on my HD.
It took a lot of clicking to get it right. I used the roles button in the TLindex to solo the roles, so I could make sure I didn’t get an errant role where I didn’t want it. When I exported the clip, I went into the Roles tab and created a preset for my particular flavor of split tracks for my show.
Here’s the result imported back into FCP7.
Perfectly perfect.
And look closely… it’s two mono channels and one stereo.
Here are some interesting notes:
- You can pre-assign Roles in the bin.
- Changing the role to a clip in the bin will not change the role of any clip already in the timeline.
- If I’ve pre-assigned a Role to a clip in the event browser, I can find it listed by going back to the Modify/Assign Roles menu. (Is there another place to find this?)
- You may not be able to select multiple clips to change at once, if any transitions are also selected. I found that I could shift-click to select a series of clips, then go through and cmd-click each transition to turn them off. If I didn’t turn the transitions off then my Roles menu were greyed out.
- You can assign keyboard shortcuts to the default Roles, but any new ones you create seem to be accessable only by using the menu.
I’ll need to do some more playing with this, but it looks like it will work.
So what’s the workflow? Pre-select things like the music, voice over and effects in my bins and assign the roles in the event browser.
I normally want to assign my soundbites to the vo track, and my soundbites often come from the same clip as the broll. That means I’ll need to individually assign each soundbite clip to the right role.Not quite as simple as just dropping it in the right track, but it’ll do.
And of course I have another strange term to learn, and try to explain to other editors who have no equivalent on their system. (What? Avid doesn’t have Roles? How two-thousand-ten!)
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FCX. She tempts me, abuses me, beats me up, makes me feel worthless, then in the end she comes around, helps me get my work done, gives me hope and I can’t stop thinking about her.Mark Morache
Avid/Xpri/FCP7/FCX
Evening Magazine,Seattle, WA
https://fcpx.wordpress.com -
93 Replies
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[Mark Morache] “If I’ve pre-assigned a Role to a clip in the event browser, I can find it listed by going back to the Modify/Assign Roles menu. (Is there another place to find this?)
“Type the role in the browser search bubble?
[Mark Morache] “It took a lot of clicking to get it right.”
You can also use the Index to select your clips. Index is now sortable by name,etc.
[Mark Morache] “That means I’ll need to individually assign each soundbite clip to the right role.”
Not quite following you here, but audio and video roles can be separate. A clip with a/v can have two roles.
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Is it possible to export Audio Roles including “handles” like in OMF exports ?
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Now that XML is visibly there, I suspect this should be coming soon.
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Roles is probably the single most revealing design feature addition. You begin to see how Apple is thinking about handling metadata to create function, organization, visualization in replacing the old track paradigm of the equivalent. Had this been in the initial release I think some people might have groked where Apple is heading.
Thanks for exploring. As I play with it too, I’m thinking of things that might advance it further and other forms of metadata handling that might improve workflow.
In dramatic scenes oftentimes dialogue gets broken out by character. I’d really like to be able to put each character on a key command for example.
I’m wondering about selecting a role and applying an effect to all the selected roles although maybe Apple has something else in mind.
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[Craig Seeman] “In dramatic scenes oftentimes dialogue gets broken out by character. I’d really like to be able to put each character on a key command for example.”
What’s weird is that roles can’t be deleted at this time.
[Craig Seeman] “I’m wondering about selecting a role and applying an effect to all the selected roles although maybe Apple has something else in mind.”
You can do this now, no?
I think there should be an Effects section in the Index.
It would list all effects, either by effect or by clip. Imagine being able to select an effect and have all the instances show up by clip name underneath. You could then delete the clip name to delete the effect from it. This way you could selectively choose what clips keep the effect very quickly.
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Call me a curmudgeon but I really don’t see Roles as ever likely to fulfill the needs of higher-end audio post-production, with or without handles or other refinements.
As someone with a background in pro-audio as much as pro-editing I would say that there is simply no substitute for getting the untouched audio out of whatever NLE you are using (via OMF/AAF as things currently stand) and mixing in a dedicated environment both software and physical (i.e. on a professional level DAW in a properly calibrated room with properly calibrated professional gear) – preferably with a properly trained audio professional.
It’s the same as trying to do broadcast pictures without a properly calibrated broadcast monitor – everyone here pretty much knows that’s not the route to go. But somehow far fewer seem to understand that the requirements for top-end audio are substantially more stringent.
So I’m afraid I can’t get excited about Roles – though I do understand there are a large number of editing scenarios where they will be useful.
I do however get a sinking feeling watching the trend for audio to be left in the hands of the picture editor – audio is a craft that is way more complex than video editing, taking years to master. A lot of the audio strategies I see video editors adopting frankly give me the heebie-jeebies – not their fault, they just don’t know any better.
Sorry to sound arrogant and elitist but someone needs to start standing up and at least mentioning the decline in audio standards that is not just coming but is already well underway.
Simon Ubsdell
Director/Editor/Writer
http://www.tokyo-uk.com -
[Simon Ubsdell] ” I would say that there is simply no substitute for getting the untouched audio out of whatever NLE you are using (via OMF/AAF as things currently stand)”
I do not think roles are going to take the place of clip by clip export (OMF/AAF). Roles are a way to visually organize your timeline without tracks. Roles aren’t just for audio. With Roles and an OMF/AAF, the exports potentially, wouldn’t have any gaps. All clips that were organized by role would come in to DAW per channel, per clip. That’s all.
[Simon Ubsdell] “So I’m afraid I can’t get excited about Roles”
Just curious, but why? Without tracks, how would you do it?
[Simon Ubsdell] “Sorry to sound arrogant and elitist but someone needs to start standing up and at least mentioning the decline in audio standards that is not just coming but is already well underway.”
You think this is starting with FCPX? This has been going on for a very long time.
FCP Legacy had to be one of the clunkiest audio editing systems on the planet. At least FCPX gives you way more quality and control.
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[Fabien Daguerre] “Is it possible to export Audio Roles including “handles” like in OMF exports ?
“Roles do not take the place of OMF. Since Roles basically export “Flattened” layers, handles can only go at the beginning/end of your timeline.
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[Jeremy Garchow] “I do not think roles are going to take the place of clip by clip export (OMF/AAF).”
Fair enough – I think I was responding to what I saw as a general euphoria that audio nirvana had arrived. I absolutely agree that they will help with organization and that’s a good thing.
[Jeremy Garchow] “You think this is starting with FCPX?”
Absolutely not – I reckon it started with FCP1 or thereabouts 😉
[Jeremy Garchow] “At least FCPX gives you way more quality and control.”
I’d agree that FCPX gives you more tools to play with (and some great ones at that) – and that’s kind of my worry. I’m sure you’re a responsible with your audio and this doesn’t apply to you but … the more options you give an editor for messing around with the audio the greater the chances of it all going Pete Tong.
I hate to think of some of the “stems” that are going to get handed off to the sound guys where inappropriate effects and levels have been irreparably baked in and there are no handles to fix anything with either. Sample dialogue: “What do you mean, you can’t use my stems? I made them with FCPX Roles – what could possibly have gone wrong?”
I think what worries me most of all is that from an audio point of view (accepting that they have other useful functions) Roles are going to be perceived as a “pro” answer to the audio finishing workflow, when in actual fact they may well create more problems than they solve.
Simon Ubsdell
Director/Editor/Writer
http://www.tokyo-uk.com -
Is there something wrong with the Automatic Duck OMF export tool?
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