RFP and pricing?

[Ron Lindeboom]

I am sure that some others here will disagree but I would not even bother to bid on such a job because you are going to be — er, uh, I believe the technical term for it is “hosed” man.

In my experience, and from many others that I have known over the years, these kinds of deals are a nightmare waiting to happen. Regularly, these kinds of contracts become what Roger Corman called “The Job That Would Not Die!”

Because of it, I wouldn’t even fill it out.

Now, the others here who are cut from a more intrepid cloth, can jump in and say why they disagree and why they would jump at the chance.

Mileage regularly varies,

Best regards,

Ron Lindeboom

Creativity is a type of learning process where the teacher and pupil are located in the same individual.

[Craig Seeman]

I had to deal with this recently.

I told the client I need a detailed scope or sample script. I can fix a rate and lock it down but that means no changes on their part. I spell out the number of shoot and edit days. If it looks like it’s going to go longer THEY have to cut something. Subjects and locations must be submitted. If the location gets x hours and the talent still can’t get a good delivery they need to live with that. The graphics and text/logos must be firm. Price includes ONE round of edit revisions WITHIN the budgeted time for post production.

Ask for script or scope
Ask for list of all shot subjects and locations
Ask for graphics description
Give them number of shoot and edit days for the price. Tell them that’s locked with the price. Tell them they’ll always have the flexibility to add or delete for additional costs or savings at their discretion. Tell them there are cancelation costs too.

I will NOT vary the above. There is no “all you can eat” for a fixed price. Fixed price lunch is fixed menu.

[Craig Seeman]

Ron, often clients who do this are new to video. I’m going through this now with a potential client. They were honest. This was their first attempt at video and they admitted they weren’t absolutely sure what to ask (don’t know if I’ll get the job though).

Of their concern is locking down a budget. That’s actually not too difficult as long as they can actually lock down a detailed scope of a project.

[Ron Lindeboom]

I understand, Craig, that their real concern is staying within budget. The problem arises when the wording is as nondescript as what he posted and based on that wording alone, I wouldn’t touch it.

I would also agree with you that the real challenge here is to get the client on the same page with you and get them to change their policies and wording. You can do that with many private entities but I have found over the years that public entities — such as universities, municipalities, civic organizations, etc. — are much tougher to get them to change. There are usually too many people who must vote and give feedback, commentary and approval on anything before it happens.

I have done a number of “public” projects over the years and they nearly always become larger projects than was originally presented and agreed to. The reason is that so many bosses have their say and before anything gets final approval, it must pass through channels. (Read: many hands and eyes.)

Therein lies the need to carefully cover your posterior protrusion.

Best regards,

Ron Lindeboom

Creativity is a type of learning process where the teacher and pupil are located in the same individual.

[Walter Biscardi]

When there is a hard budget, you have to be absolutely explicit as to what they will receive for that amount.

Running time no longer than X

Shoot hours no longer than x

Edit hours no longer than x

Music / video library / miscellaneous costs no more than x

Client gets X amount of changes

Then you MUST include a line something line, “Any changes requested / required by the client that requires us to go beyond these terms listed, client shall be notified and will authorize, in writing, additional payment to be billed at an additional X per hour until project completion. If authorization is not received, all work shall cease and client will be billed according to the original terms of payment. “

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Biscardi Creative Media
HD and SD Production for Broadcast and Independent Productions.

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[Craig Seeman]

[Ron Lindeboom] “The problem arises when the wording is as nondescript as what he posted and based on that wording alone, I wouldn’t touch it. “

In my I case I responded to the RFP with some general information and request from them on the detail I needed. I got a response back with a lot more detail although still not enough. If there’s dialogue and response then one can continue to get info. My method is to throw it back to them and if they can’t follow through just walk away.

To the above kind of RFP I give an hourly and day rate (which is simply based on hourly rate) and list of gear. I’ll also list some possible additional gear and the costs per day and include in a response that you need more details to be more specific. Then list those details as they may not be thinking of them.

At that point they’re either organized enough to provide details are at least why they can’t yet or they’re simply grinders and you walk.

[Nick Griffin]

IF (and it’s a BIG if) you can become the “Change Order” Nazi and each and every time the “many hands” make a change, you have a signed record that they made the change and, that by signing, they agree to additional costs. With this type of system in place you can possibly make these kind of jobs work. Not likely, just possible, IMHO.

But Ron is right in that when it’s a public rather than corporate gig getting a change made to the RFP/contract is probably not worth the effort. Typically once this kind of mentality is in place, it’s too late for it to work out well for you. The ideal situation is one in which you are building a nurturing, consultative relationship with the client. One where you are helping them define what they want, what things cost, and what they are willing to pay. Jointly you set the scope and the budget.

So Dean… just how badly do you want this? Recognize up front that you may be committing yourself to a lot of extra, un-paid work. You may also get trapped in a job that’s never considered finished and therefore never fully paid — even with their agreement in place.

[Dean Brennan]

Thanks for the feedback everyone. All this helps my situation. I know how hard it is trying to change the RFP process in a University setting. It’s a battle that most likely will not be won.

Just to clarify, I am NOT bidding on this RFP. I had this RFP sent to me from another department on campus. I was going to give the department some helpful tips on the RFP and what they could include based on my experience so hopefully it can help the company who ends up getting the bid.

I do a lot of freelance work and would never accept a proposal like this because of what you all have stated so I assume if someone agrees to it as it is they are not experienced with production and the process. In return the University is not getting the quality/message they probably want. Again, just an assumption.

Dean C. Brennan
Digital Video Specialist

[Mark Suszko]

Yeah, Dean, its a bad deal. They are asking for commodity pricing, which is good on things like carpeting, chairs, coffee pots for the cafeteria, etc. You can’t put commodity pricing on a custom service job, not effectively. One strategy, if you were foolish enouhg to bite on this, is to run your own best estimate, inflate that by an obscene margin, and if all goes well, pocket a windfall. But you can find dozens of reasons why that’s not a good idea.

If nobody bites on the bad RFP, it *can* die off and be canceled, and a better bidding arrangement can evolve out of that. But only if you engage the process and contribute to the conversation, like Craig is doing.

[Jon Agnew]

I work for a university video department. Make like brave Sir Robin and RUN AWAY!!!!!!

Seriously….as far and fast as you can.