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RFP and pricing?
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I’ve recently quoted on a job a little like this – the start point was “we have about this much, and want something that does this” which makes things a little easier.
It was still short on detail, as others have said above – starting off with a call and a chat about what they actually expect revealed far more than the paperwork ever could.
Once we started that conversation we managed to move on to presenting a “proper” proposal rather than a one sheeter with a dollar amount and a binding signature.
Managing expectations as well as the budget is the tough bit with this kind of work – and of course the panel of exec producers you discover at delivery.
I found the best way was to go in, start the conversation, find out what they are after and then work out if it can be done for the budget.
Expecting a client like this to tell you how many shoot days/locations/graphics etc. are expected is as unrealistic as the initial single sheet quote request I think – which may have been the point.
The Brit in Brisbane
The Pomme in Production – Brisbane Australia. -
I did a job like this last year for a state sponsored university. I found out what their dollar limit was and bid $250 under that. I put a firm limit on what we would do for the money as in How many crew people for how much time on the shoot and how much time in edit. We paid for the VO and stated that we would include a certain amount of effects and graphics work.
Clients like this are not bound to take the lowest bid. They are supposed to get the most for their money and not exceed a certain dollar limit. The limit I’m talking about is stated in their business guidelines. Ask the person making the offer what those guideline are. They have to tell you. Don’t leave money on the table. If you think you’re going to get the job by being the lowest bid, you’re probably wrong. Ask them what they’re scoring process is.
Now, a note on taking these bids on: In 2004, we tracked how much time we spent bidding on jobs that we didn’t get. I’m talking about those RFPs where there are dozens of pages to fill out. We spent over 150 man hours on jobs that we never had a chance on. Total waste of time. If they have 1 or 2 pages to fill out, you might have a chance. The longer the paperwork, the slimmer your chance of getting the job. Also, watch for trick or impossible requirements because they have probably written the job spec around their favorite vendor who will get the job regardless o who else bids. We’ve had this happen both ways.
These days, I turn down almost every job where we have to audition or make special DVDs or whatever. It seems like the more sophisticated the client, the easier it is to get the job if you have a history of award winning productions.
Don’t spend more time on the bid that you are willing to completely throw away.
One more thing: Find out who they’ve been using in the past and why the job is out for bid anyway.
Steve Wargo
Tempe, Arizona
It’s a dry heat!Sony HDCAM F-900 & HDW-2000/1 deck
5 Final Cut (not quite PRO) systems
Sony HVR-M25 HDV deck
2-Sony EX-1 HD . -
Like everyone else here I think going through an RFP is a little like getting dental work done.
However, if it’s properly done it can serve a useful purpose for you and for the client.
That’s when the RFP is specific enough to define the actual terms of the sample job you’re bidding on.
If that’s the case, you’d expect a vendor or two to come in high. A vendor or two to come in dirt cheap. And a statistical cluster in the middle somewhere that actually defines what the market expects to pay for the scope of work outlined.
This is fair because it tells both the client and the vendors what market rates currently are. If an existing vendor is way out of line on the high side, or if the company doing the RFP has a vendor doing work too cheaply, both those extremes will be uncovered.
However, once that process is done – it’s done. The client has surveyed the market and determined fair market rates. Anything beyond that is silly and I’ve written to clients doing RFPs and told them exactly that.
Of course, I’m different from a lot of people here. I HATE hourly pricing. That’s based on my belief that if you’re good and fast you shouldn’t make LESS than someone who’s crappy and slow. And when you bid on time that’s the first trap for both sides. The second is that selling hours is stupid because it’s an ever diminishing inventory that’s leaking away no matter whether you’re working or not.
I personally prefer bidding projects based on what I think my time, effort, and mostly my EXPERTISE is worth. That bulk rate should be reasonably “screw up proof” which is to say my skilled rates are such that if I have to work some extra hours on something, I still end up properly compensated for my abilities and experience.
That way it’s up to me to do things efficiently – and to the extent I do – I should be able to financially benefit from the efficiencies I bring to the project, not make less because I can do in 8 hours what it might take someone else 14 hours to accomplish.
My view anyway.
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I’m from Singapore and a LOT of corporate work we [and other local production houses] go for are from the government/public sector. It’s the nature of the beast. And they adhere strictly to a RFP-like electronic system [which is referred to as ITQ or ‘Invitation To Quote’ for projects with budgets under $70k; anything higher would be a call for Tender].
Like Mark said, this is really a flawed system for creative services. I’m sure it works much better when it’s used to purchase technical services or inventory items – which it is also used for.
Like it or not, we have to continue pitching [well, more often than not, we don’t even get a pitch or face-to-face session… so it’s an electronic proposal and quotation] for these projects as part of business.
What we try to do is to always give the issuing personnel a call to suss out as much details as possible. Often, the RFP document is not well-prepared and does not provide enough information.
We always try to find out what their budget is but unfortunately, they’re usually ‘not at liberty to discuss’. On one hand, their rationale is that it’ll protect their interests since production houses will definitely quote near their budget if it’s revealed. On the other hand, it becomes almost like a lottery for us.
On more than one occasion, we have quoted for projects that went to some other company that quoted a low four-figure amount! In times like these, I’m glad for clients who actually revealed their budgets – so we didn’t have to waste time and effort coming up with quotes and concepts when we know we are not the kind of production companies who do work for such low amounts.
Our integrity to do quality work at a reasonable price is too strong ;]
And we’re in this for the long haul.We have a standard proposal when responding to such RFPs – and it always stipulates number of shoot days, shooting format, number of drafts of scripting, whether VO is required, whether language versions/subtitles are needed, number of edit and viewing sessions and final deliverables needed etc. We also have our own T&Cs attached and also a note that the concepts proposed is our intellectual property and cannot be reproduced if the project is not awarded to us.
It always helps everyone when the client knows what they want the video for. It’s part of our job to advise on how to craft the message but there should be some basis to start with.
Kai
FCP Editor / Producer with Intuitive Films
https://kai-fcp-editor.blogspot.com
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Now ‘LIVE’! Check Out The Intuitive Films Blog @ https://intuitive-films.blogspot.com
At Intuitive Films, We Create: TV Commercials, Documentaries, Corporate Videos and Feature Films
Visit us @ https://www.intuitivefilms.com
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MacBook Pro 2.4GHz | 4GB RAM | FCP 5.1.4 | Mac OS X 10.5.2 -
Thank you for chiming in, Kai. It is good to hear from others outside the USA who have to deal with these issues in their own country. Thank you for the well thought out response, it is appreciated.
Ron Lindeboom
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My pleasure, Ron. We had a tough week when it came to pitching. We went for a ITQ that was opened for only 3 days [the minimum they’re required to have it up], the officer in charge averted all my attempts to find out more details about the project and 2 days after the ITQ closed, the project was awarded to another production company. Then, there was another project that required 2 days of full-day filming of a full-scale emergency exercise and editing to an undisclosed length of time – that went for a four-figure sum.
On the other hand, we had a chance to pitch directly to a quasi-governmental client for a TV commercial but after presenting four well-thought out concepts, we were given an, IMO, unrealistic budget to work with.
But times are lean and we got to make the best of all possible leads.
Though sometimes, one can’t help but feel that some corporations are using ‘times are lean’ as an excuse to try and push down project budgets to unrealistic levels.
Kai
FCP Editor / Producer with Intuitive Films
https://kai-fcp-editor.blogspot.com
—
Now ‘LIVE’! Check Out The Intuitive Films Blog @ https://intuitive-films.blogspot.com
At Intuitive Films, We Create: TV Commercials, Documentaries, Corporate Videos and Feature Films
Visit us @ https://www.intuitivefilms.com
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MacBook Pro 2.4GHz | 4GB RAM | FCP 5.1.4 | Mac OS X 10.5.2
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