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Revisiting 24fps vs. 23.976fps
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Man, I’m sorry. I’m really starting to lose all the options you have here. It’s been a long day. Can you start from the beginning?
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Long day here too dude! Thanks for following me around this wild goose chase! I think we got the answer I was looking for, in that my mixer was working in 24fps in pro tools and not 23.98, hence my need to apply the speed mod to his stems to sync with my picture.
From the top…
I have 4 reels of Final Cut Pro Sequences (2K DPX in a 23.98 sequence). Initially, I imported the files through gluetools at 24fps, but I changed the sequence to 23.98, along with Gluetools handling of DPX frame rates.
I exported OMF files to the sound mixer and he used the settings my OMF gave him (presumably, 24fps, not 23.98 since I probably needed to do more than just change the “24” to “23.98” in my sequence settings…though I didn’t get a render bar so I assumed it worked)
He mixed and sent me back stems that weren’t syncing on 3 of the 4 reels without me applying a 100.10% speed change to the stems. What I was trying to figure out was:
A: Why did I have to apply the speed change to reels 1, 2, and 4?
B. What was different about Reel 3 that I didn’t have to apply the speed change?Now that I am going to a new mixer for sweetening, I wanted to make sure I do everything right this time!
Abel Cine Tech – Rental Coordinator
We now have Red and SI-2K in our Rental Fleet!
212.462.0163 • mnichols [at] abelcine [dot] com -
[Michael Nichols] “A: Why did I have to apply the speed change to reels 1, 2, and 4?”
The speed change shouldn’t be necessary if you reimport the stems with the method I outlined. With audio, a second is a second if working at the same sample rate. FCP does weird things to the audio according to easy setup as I mentioned in the other post. Since it’s the same file, it’s going to be same length.
The OMF you gave him was in sync, right?
[Michael Nichols] “Now that I am going to a new mixer for sweetening, I wanted to make sure I do everything right this time!”
Does that include new OMFs?
Where did the original audio come from, and how did you import that?
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The OMF was definitely in sync. I am pretty sure I am following the easy set up method and I still need to apply the speed change.
Either way, I am just going to start from scratch with the new mixer, so it’s all a moot point now.
Abel Cine Tech – Rental Coordinator
We now have Red and SI-2K in our Rental Fleet!
212.462.0163 • mnichols [at] abelcine [dot] com -
What I’m asking is, your ORIGINAL audio files. Not the ones from audio post, but the original files from the shoot. The one that you used to edit, and make a subsequent OMF.
How did you import those?
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While I can’t say I remember because I started this project TWO years ago (!!), I am pretty sure the audio was imported with with 24fps as the easy set up.
Abel Cine Tech – Rental Coordinator
We now have Red and SI-2K in our Rental Fleet!
212.462.0163 • mnichols [at] abelcine [dot] com -
[Michael Nichols] “This project is one big minefield! “
A couple of things here.
Why did you start working at 24.0? it makes no difference to the DPX files they are still frames that are being interpreted as what ever you tell it to be.
“The project was initially 24, but I set Gluetools to read DPX files at 23.98 and re-imported everything. I created a new sequence and pasted edits in a sequence that was 23.98 and didn’t need to render anything. Perhaps this is my mistake in this situation.”
yes it was, but wise of you to see that.
One thing you are not mentioning is that audio files do not normally carry timecode- an Audio file is measured in feet and inches or minutes and seconds- Time code is something that we arbitrarily add to the file so that it matches the video frames, but in reality formats like Aiff do not have a place for a TC track.
gary adcock
Studio37Post and Production Workflow Consultant
Production and Post Stereographer
Chicago, ILhttps://blogs.creativecow.net/24640
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Honestly, I started working in 24fps because I was uninformed on the proper workflow and rather than research, I used my idiot logic “They are film scans, so of course I should be at 24fps!”
It was afterwards I realized the error of my ways and started a new project where I re-imported all my DPX stacks with gluetools set to interpret at 23.98 and rebuilt my edit. Although, my “rebuild” may have consisted of simply copying the sequence from the 24fps timeline and pasting it into the 23.98 timeline. I honestly don’t remember. It’s been over a year.
I realize that Audio doesn’t carry timecode and that FCP tags based on the easy set up (at least I think I do).
Abel Cine Tech – Rental Coordinator
We now have Red and SI-2K in our Rental Fleet!
212.462.0163 • mnichols [at] abelcine [dot] com -
[Michael Nichols] “I realize that Audio doesn’t carry timecode and that FCP tags based on the easy set up (at least I think I do).”
Call it an undocumented feature. I’d start all the way over, new project, new 23.98 easy setup and FCP relaunch, new import of everything.
I bet it’s all in sync.
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That sounds like a LOT of work!!
It’s a feature with 21 tracks of audio (with music and efx) and over 1200 edits. Is there any way I can start a new project at 23.98, and use XML or EDL to maintain my edits for audio and video? It sounds like you’re saying I should rebuild my entire project?
Abel Cine Tech – Rental Coordinator
We now have Red and SI-2K in our Rental Fleet!
212.462.0163 • mnichols [at] abelcine [dot] com
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