Resolve and Audio

[Gabriele Turchi]

I do agree ,
I have to renounce to have dailies done In resolve for that reason , and because I have to use other software for the dailies ,I loose all the done work when it comes time for finishing in resolve ….

g

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[Dave Williams]

The latest versions of Resolve have been great with new additions but what about basics? I believe that audio and being able to sync audio is a basic tool that should have been implemented in the beginning. Your right doing dailies without audio passing thru especially when the client is asking for one format for the editorial and one for themselves that is different is a huge pain. It would be nice if everyone would express this to Black Magic and maybe we could see this on the next upgrade. I would be happy if this were the only thing they implemented next.

[Michael Phillips]

Passing audio through, and using Resolve for dailies with double system audio are two different proposals, with one requiring more dedicated audio development work over the other.

I use Resolve for dailies when production is using double system, then sync in the NLE to ensure full metadata retention of the BWF files as well as choice to sync with mix track, versus ISO tracks, etc. Also, just pointing to a folder of BWF files and hoping that the timecode matches up perfectly is not going to work all the time – I have synced thousands of hours of dailies over the past 20 years to see that the true sync of picture and sound will have different timecode values when comparing picture, audio and slate timecodes. So the system would need the ability to have sync correction and metadata offset management to truly be a syncing system for dailies.

Single system, pass through is more straightforward – sync is assumed by virtue of being recorded by the same device at the same time and metadata is really picture metadata with audio coming along for the ride.

Scratch track recording on picture in double system workflows present its own set of challenges as to what the common metadata relationship is between the scratch track (using picture metadata as stated) and what is being recorded by the dedicated audio device other than shoot date and time of day. I see some promise with devices like the PIX 240 from Sound Devices that records from the HD-SDI or HDMI and in some cases grabs the file based metadata over the signal being recorded – such as filename (think R3D files for example). Even if not recording proxy picture, naming the BWF files the same way or inserting that metadata into the iXML of BEXT chunk can only help when it comes time to conform and or sync in dailies process and perhaps we will see this metadata pipe for audio only recording being implemented in future versions of audio recording devices.

But to force what has been a conform color correction system at the end of the process up front and to “just work” for the demands of dailies is not going to happen overnight. What Blackmagic decides to do with new and additional functionality in the future will be interesting as file-based post workflows are constantly changing. But to also see where companies like Sound Devices, Cinedeck, etc. go is just as important in the overall workflow solution.

Michael

Michael Phillips

[Gabriele Turchi]

I agree with Michael ,
as far as my need , would be a huge thing just having the embedded audio rendered , 90% of the time my clients record in camera audio (red) and the editor want that audio on the dailies (than eventually they will sync again with the good audio (but later on and not on hours of clip that they will not use ..)

g

Davinci Resolve Control Surface
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[Dave Williams]

I agree with you Michael but at least make it so the raw files 5d, Alexa or whatever pass thru their audio out the other end if its usable or not is all I am asking for. When a client shoots let’s say 5d most of us assume that he is not going to use the audio but they should have that option and I have seen it used more than not. We are after all stripping the audio off for dailies and if we don’t put it back, which you know is very time consuming they have none. I think it’s a huge problem that should at the very least be opened for discussion so maybe Black Magic will make it a priority.

[Mike Most]

I would point out that using Resolve for creating editorial dailies is something users are doing, but neither Blackmagic nor DaVinci before them has ever stated or even implied that Resolve is a dailies system. It is a grading system for finishing, and although it has been greatly enhanced to do other things, saying that something “should have” been included that has little to nothing to do with the actual product design or intent is a rather self serving statement. Things are what they are, not what you might want them to be. Saying Resolve is a dailies system because some people are using it for that doesn’t make it so. A true dailies creation system is much more concerned with metadata creation and retention, accurate sound sync, multiple deliverables creation, and overall workflow efficiency than it is about color correction. If you look at programs and devices specifically targeted at that – I would suggest that both Colorfront and Scratch Lab are in that category – they are quite different in terms of their focus and their feature set than a dedicated color grader like Resolve.

Now, having said all that, Blackmagic is of course free to add those things, and quite possibly will. But to imply that they should already be there is probably more an indication of what you want for free than it is what the program was actually developed to be.

[Dave Williams]

Mike I think the comment you made about me wanting something for “Free” was way out of line as I have spent more money than most putting my system together including buying the Resolve panels. With that being said, if they want to charge me for implementing audio pass through I would be more than happy to pay for it.

[Mike Most]

If that sounded personal, I apologize. It’s just that if you read many if not most of the threads here, it’s often about that. The main point of my post was that people want the program to be something it was never designed to be. Not that there’s anything wrong with that, but there should be some understanding that a user’s goals aren’t always the same as the developer’s, and that comments like “it should have been in there from the beginning” can sometimes reveal not only a lack of knowledge about the program’s history, but also a personal redefinition of what the program is, one which may or may not be in line with the developer’s intent and/or their intended audience. I’m sure Blackmagic would ultimately like to extend the usefulness of the program, but Resolve was originally designed to be essentially a digital 2K, and at a time when “file based cameras” didn’t even exist. The entire focus of the program is and always has been color grading. “The beginning” was way back around 2004, before Reds, Alexas, F3’s, and even Genesis – which recorded to tape. Today, there seem to be growing groups of users who want Resolve to be an Avid, others who want it to be a Colorfront, still others who want it to be Final Cut or Scratch, and others who want it to be 3CP. Except that it is none of those things.

Telling a developer your vision of what their product can be is one thing, and often a very useful one. Chiding them for not having made it something it was never intended to be is a bit unfair. That may still sound a bit harsh, but I think it’s generally true.

[Gabriele Turchi]

i think mike is right nd i agree …

but i guess that enabling the embedded audio on the render (embedded on QT’s or R3D)…well i guess that is pretty much a must in 2012… and not really a re-design of the purpose of the software …

every time that is tell someone (client , or editor etc.. that resolve does not render out Audio at all they are always pretty shocked …

g

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[Dave Williams]

The purpose of my post was just to find out if I am the only one out there that thinks at the very least that the embedded audio should pass through on render. Forget about syncing external audio in Resolve I can see that would take some redesign but stripping the audio off is a whole other issue. OK little humor here, suppose you took your fancy car in for service and when you go back to pick it up the tires are gone. You tell the service technician “Where are my tires” and he says well I can put them back on but its gonna take another 2 hours and I have to charge you for it. “Wait a minute! I brought it in with the tires on it why would you take them off?” see my point?