Render from vegas not as sharp as timeline

[John Rofrano]

[John Sieber] “A.) what’s the best bang for buck (size vs. quality) render option to send to somebody working with FCP (uncompressed is probably not an option as we would prefer to upload files via FTP if possible)? They have suggested quicktime, but I’m not sure which combo of settings in the Vegas Quicktime 7 render custom settings dialog to choose… “

I would use the Avid DNxHD QuickTime codec. It is a free high quality digital intermediary that will maintain fidelity between Windows and a Mac. Both your Vegas editors and FCP editors would have to download and install it but it works great and allows a great deal of flexibility in encoding.

[John Sieber] “they also mentioned using H.264 but I don’t see that listed within the Vegas settings for Quicktime 7.”

Nope. Unfortunately, Vegas doesn’t support H.264 in a QuickTime container. You would have to purchase QuickTime Pro and encode it once in Vegas and again in QT Pro.

[John Sieber] “Can FCP users read the Sony mxf format? Is that a good option?”

Yes, there is a free plug-in from Sony Broadcast that allows FCP editors to work with MXF so that is also an option.

[John Sieber] “Would FCP users need to purchase Neoscene in order to read a Cineform rendered mov or avi file?”

Yes, both editors would need to own NeoScene but I’m not sure if they can share files because NeoScene Mac will make MOV files and NeoScene PC will make AVI files so make sure you ask CineForm about any compatibility issues. Most probably it will work but check to be sure.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com

[John Sieber]

Thanks John. Excellent information… I’ll run that by our FCP guys and see if they are down with it.

I had a part 2 of the question which is more concerning to me – the loss of sharpness after renders from Vegas. Any idea why that might be happening? Anyone else notice this?

I’m starting to think that it may be a progressive vs interlaced thing… or how vegas previews this… I’m shooting with a Canon XA-10, which has the option of shooting in “PF30” mode or 60i… I had assumed I wanted to choose the PF30 setting for progressive video since I am mostly editing video for web use and distribution. From Canon’s manual:

“PF30 – shooting at 30 frames per second, progressive*. Use this frame rate to easily edit your recordings, for example, to post them to the web.
*Recorded as 60i”

I’m not clear on what Vegas is doing with that. If I want the best quality progressive video to send on to others, what settings should I be using? Should I actually render out at interlaced? Am I even getting a progressive file at any point during this? Sorry about the confusion, but there are so many settings options within Vegas and there seems to be no detailed manual or help file of what they do or best settings…

[John Sieber]

I just found this older thread…

https://forums.creativecow.net/thread/24/935501

…where it looks like James was running into the same issues, but also using Neoscene to ingest the clips. You had mentioned a “deinterlace” setting… is that in Neoscene or is there a deinterlace option in Vegas that I’m missing?

Actually, after playing with it for a bit, setting the project properties to “interlaced” vs “progressive” is a lot sharper in the vegas preview, and rendering out as “interlaced” as Sony AVC also plays back much sharper with Windows Media Player… confusing though. What the Hell is that PF30 mode on the Canon cameras supposed to do?

http://www.johnsieber.com

[John Sieber]

I think I’ve finally found the soft render issue answer, but I’m surprised I had to dig so hard for it. The entire problem is with the progressive vs interlaced settings for the project and render when dealing with footage from the Canon XA-10 in pf30 mode. It’s not just this camera though – there are many other brands and models that use the psuedo-progressive format, which the NLE software doesn’t tag correctly. See this blog thread:

https://provideocoalition.com/index.php/atepper/story/empsf8217s_missing_workflow_em_part_2_the_canon_xa10_camera/

Why am I the only one asking about this? There must be millions of these cameras out there and the same amount of Vegas users… I can’t be the only one running into this?

So, making sure the Project properties are set to “Progressive scan”, with the Deinterlace method set to “none” seems to do the trick. The default setting when choosing “match media properties” populates these fields as interlaced “Upper Field First” AND “Blend Fields” for the deinterlace method.

But one last thing is still confusing to me – doing the above seems to be correct, but you can also change the media clips “properties” to progressive as well, and I’m not sure if this is a redundant setting at this point or what.. Any ideas anyone?

http://www.johnsieber.com

[John Rofrano]

[John Sieber] “Why am I the only one asking about this? There must be millions of these cameras out there and the same amount of Vegas users… I can’t be the only one running into this?”

I guess it depends on how many people use these proprietary modes vs just shooting 60i/50i. I know I stay away from them myself.

[John Sieber] “But one last thing is still confusing to me – doing the above seems to be correct, but you can also change the media clips “properties” to progressive as well, and I’m not sure if this is a redundant setting at this point or what.. Any ideas anyone?”

The media properties are there in case Vegas doesn’t interpret them correctly. For example, if Vegas thinks a clip is progressive and you know that it’s interlaced you can override it at the media level. You should NEVER change it to something that is not true because then Vegas will handle the media incorrectly.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com

[Raf Erosa]

I have the same problem. But I am shooting for TV. I need to know how to set the camera to shoot for TV. I cant figure out which settings to use.
ok.. So for a SD broadcast:
Question 1: Do I use M or Auto for TV broadcast?
Queation 2: What setting should I use for TV? 60i, 24p, or 60p
Question 3: How do I render he files? Interlaced, PRogressive, upper, or lower?

any help? Who on CC knows about the XA10? can someone connect me to the right people?

[Raf Erosa]

Which do you stay away from? 60i/50i? or the 24p / 30p?? And explain your answer. I am shooting TV with a XA10, and I cant figure out what setting to set my camera on. Can you please tell me which settings to use for TV?

[Mike Costantini]

I too have a Canon XA10 and thought that the picture in the preview window, even when set on Best quality, looked not so sharp. I thought it might be a lighting issue but I purchased some quality softboxes so I know I have plenty of light now. I’m going to be shooting a lot of video whose ultimate destination will be videos for commercial download on the internet. I’m also trying to figure out the best workflow/project settings/rendering/camera settings to get the best possible picture.

It’s been a while since you posted so I’m just wondering if you eventually came to a conclusion as to what settings ended up being the best?

[Raf Erosa]

there was a guy on vimeo who listed his settings to get good shots.

If you find a good workflow, let me know. I havent figured it out. I just submit to the station what they say, and Im done. I hate the low quality, but it meets broadcast specs.

[Mike Costantini]

I think PF30 is the way to go, it looks much more vibrant and bright compared to the 60i (I did some tests this morning)