Removing Advanced Pulldown from 1080i24PA ftg

[Gary Adcock]

[John Pilgrim] “Working with my new HVX200 (yay!) I’ve been coming across a problem with FCP’s Remove Advanced Pulldown command and HVX footage shot in 1080i/24PA.I keep getting the message “File does not contain frames encoded using advanced pulldown.””

thats because Final Cut is not currently supporting 24pA in the 1080 format. then neither is Avid, (note the capture settings specifically say DV and DV50 materials)

you have to use Cinema tools.

Gary Adcock
Studio37
HD and Film Consultation
Chicago, IL USA

[John Pilgrim]

Thanks Gary!
I have looked in Cinema Tools. When I open a 1080i24pA clip in Cinema Tools and choose Reverse Telecine, I get a dialog for “Remove the telecine 3:2 pulldown” that is rather different from the “Automated Reverse Advanced 2:3:3:2 Pulldown” dialog shown on page 197 of the Cinema Tools manual (which I RTFM’d before posting). Seems like Cinema Tools isn’t any more happy with HVX 1080i24pA footage than FCP. Thoughts?
John

BTW: CinemaTools ver 2.2, and FCP 5.04

[Steve Freebairn]

Can’t you just remove it in after Effects? Unless you are outputting if from FCP or doing effects work, why do you need the pull down removed? Just curious.

[Dom Silverio]

[gary adcock] “then neither is Avid”

Actually if I remember correctly, you can do Advance Pulldown on any 24p/23.976 project types with Avid Adrenaline.

[Gary Adcock]

[John Pilgrim] ” get a dialog for “Remove the telecine 3:2 pulldown” that is rather different from the “Automated Reverse Advanced 2:3:3:2 Pulldown” dialog shown on page 197 of the Cinema Tools manual (which I RTFM’d before posting). Seems like Cinema Tools isn’t any more happy with HVX 1080i24pA footage than FCP. Thoughts?”

yes but unfortunately you have to do it manually, via CT
you tried to handle the DVCPROHD as DV footage and you cannot.

FCP and AVID both will only handle advanced pulldown removal from DV and DV50 sources. Not from the
1080 24pA dvcprohd files that the hvx200 can produce. Contrary to Mr MPE’s comments.

Gary Adcock
Studio37
HD and Film Consultation
Chicago, IL USA

[John Pilgrim]

I’d like to use CT but when given a 1080i24pA file from the HVX, CT only presents options for a 2:3 pulldown removal, not 2:3:3:2. The options CT gives don’t make any sense for 24pA: https://bartlettstreet.com/CT_23.png or at least I’m not groking them.
John

[Gary Adcock]

[John Pilgrim] “I’d like to use CT but when given a 1080i24pA file from the HVX, CT only presents options for a 2:3 pulldown removal, not 2:3:3:2. The options CT gives don’t make any sense for 24pA: https://bartlettstreet.com/CT_23.png or at least I’m not groking them.”

John

then stop trying to make 23.98 video 24 then.
there is more to CT than the easy set up.

Video 24p is not 24.0 it is 23.98
what is the 1080I field order— if it is not F1 -F2?

and you need to determine the cadence to extract the frames.
(so I cannot give a simple answer there is not one. sorry)

Gary Adcock
Studio37
HD and Film Consultation
Chicago, IL USA

[John Pilgrim]

Umm Gary,
First, I really appreciate your help.

Second, sorry for not switching the Conform to frame rate to 23.98 before I took the screen shot. I’m WELL aware that 24 doesn’t equal 23.98. That setting doesn’t actually make a difference to the fields option presented at the bottom of the dialog, which is the REAL problem here. (https://bartlettstreet.com/CT_23.png)

Third, notice those field options at the bottom of the dialog. They go AA BB BC CD DD, or if you group the like fields together: AA BBB CC DDD, which is a 2:3 cadence, not a 24pA cadence (AA BB BC CC DD or AA BBB CCC DD). I see this dialog as asking me what the starting frame is in 2:3 telecined footage, meaning that *none* of them would produce correct results with 2:3:3:2 material.

Thanks again for your input.

John

[Micpapad]

Hey Gary. I’ve been following these post and your vagueness is so fustrating. Not meaning to offend but some of us aren’t as knowledgable and a little hand holding might help. Coming on and offering a snippet here a snippet there of info when someone can’t solve a problem seems a waste and it also seems to aggravate you. How about being a little more patient and clearer. I still don’t know how to solve the problem with 1080i/24PA fotage in FCP.

Mic

[Gary Adcock]

[John Pilgrim] “Second, sorry for not switching the Conform to frame rate to 23.98 before I took the screen shot. I’m WELL aware that 24 doesn’t equal 23.98. That setting doesn’t actually make a difference to the fields option presented at the bottom of the dialog, which is the REAL problem here.”

John

you know that 24p video is 23.98, but you did not check properly check that the field order of 1080 footage is upperfield first. < F2-F1 in CT> I can only go on what info I am shown and that was incorrect, the field order was also incorrect.

Select the Style 2 from the Pulldown to get a different set of frame choice combinations. However
As for cadence removal, this gets a little more dicey as you need to understand what the 2:3:3:2 cadence looks like when you go thru frame by frame. I cannot show you, SO you have to determine what the cadence of your footage is and what frame you are on to determine which of the pulldown frame combinations you have to choose.

in the traditional post environment the pulldown cadence starts on frame 0 or 5 for 3:2 pulldown, I do not know what are how you have the footage ( subcliping, transcoding etc all can effect that default – welcome to Quicktime) you are going to have to look at your footage and determine the cadence of the pulldown and then choose the appropriate cadence setting for the footage you have – there is not an easy way to do this.
you may have to try a couple of settings on your own to see. I can not tell you how to — I can only guide superficially as this is Cinema Tools and 2:3;3:2 cadence removal is not in the manual. other than 3 paragraphs on using the AUTO button (how typically apple)

Gary Adcock
Studio37
HD and Film Consultation
Chicago, IL USA