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RedShark News: Opinion: Which are the best NLEs right now?
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[Herb Sevush] “Bill, you were merely quoting Jeremy in your original statement and even he acknowledges his mistake. Your absolutest quote being “i don’t remember anyone …” – not most people, just pure hyperbole based on someone else’s research. That you still deal in exaggeration and absolutes to make a point is an almost endearing matter of style by now, but don’t blame me when you get caught out on it.”
Poppycock.
I clearly wrote “I don’t remember.”
So my post stands. That I couldn’t recall ONE post out of literally thousands is perfectly reasonable.
If the “dinosasur(s)” search had revealed something like dozens of examples, It might be discussion worthy in this NG as a common diss aimed at those who argued against X. That it did not, says it’s staying power was not in its essence, but in the emotional weight of those who took such umbrage at it’s (apparently singular) use.
The issue wan’t the term, but the shouldering of the “sting of the term” by a wide swath of non-X editors who weren’t even in the class being called out by the OP. It’s not the name calling. It’s the self-manteling of the (I’M SO BUTT HURT BY THIS!) by so many that is probative here, IMO.
(Gosh, I feel so young again, arguing with you exactly like it’s 2011! How deliciously retro fun!)
Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com – video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.
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[Bill Davis] “That one use must have STUNG some folks so hard that it became a persistent meme.”
If you do your own search for “dinosaurs” you’ll find multiple posts with it being used to describe people that are unwilling to evolve and/or adapt and, like any bit of slang or meme, it only takes once use to get the ball rolling if it’s catchy.
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[Bill Davis] “Thanks for posting the entire quote in context. That I missed a single post in 2011 SHOCKS me. Clearly this is evidence of widespread “dinosaur bashing” (not) … That one use must have STUNG some folks so hard that it became a persistent meme.”
I have probably contributed more than most to the labeling of “the Luddite dinosaur” argument. Here’s how I see it.
It’s not about literally calling people Luddite dinosaurs. It’s about promoting this idea that everyone would choose FCP X if only they could set aside their preconceptions of how NLEs should work. If only they would drop their legacy workflows. If only they “got” it.
This often flows into another sentiment that FCP X is always the best adaptation to the changing industry, and that anyone who chooses any other NLE risks being passed by.
I think the Luddite dinosaur argument is well-intentioned. It comes from people who have found a better way to do their work, who are sincerely concerned about trying to compete “the old way,” and who group all other competitive products into “the old way” category. They want to share that with others so that others can benefit, too. That’s a good thing. Helping each other out is what the COW is all about.
However, I think the argument is also usually misguided and overzealous. It assumes that others are incapable of understanding how to meet their own needs (though in fairness, sometimes this is true). It is blind to the strengths of competing products, as well as the weaknesses of the promoted product. Just like the old anti-FCPX “fanboy” argument, now largely gone, the dinosaur argument is more an ad hominem argument about the users (or non-users) of a particular NLE than an advancement of the discussion.
If you’ll pardon a bit of reduction, the Luddite dinosaur argument starts from a very good argument (FCP X has some unique tools and workflows that make it worth consideration) and implies a very bad one (no other NLE has unique tools and workflows worth consideration).
For me, this forum is at its best when we are open to the possibilities each offering presents. Shutting that down by promoting an FCP X monoculture and dismissing anyone not using FCP X as lateral movers would exclude some really interesting conversation.
Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
@keenlive | RenderBreak [blog] | Profile [LinkedIn] -
[Andrew Kimery] “I assume the “interesting or innovative” comment has to do with plugins, workflow, etc., being such virgin territory compared PPro or Avid. “
Nope.
I suspect the reviewer has been watching the other FCP X centric sites and has been watching and reading what’s coming out of the X community in terms of innovative new uses. Off the top of my head, three good examples were:
-Peter Wiggins use of the X database to cut down the editorial time in the live world of last year’s Tour de France for ITV2 (His top 10 X plusses included many about X’s database approach that I’ve ignored, but also a couple about the editorial process itself…
4) Magnetic Timeline – add and subtract shots without moving blocks of clips, trimming to make space, or fuss. and
8) Better use of speed changes with Blade speed and Optical Flow. Very handy for putting holds for timing in rendered graphic filesThen there was:
– Thomas Grove Carters “above and below the line” audio workflow for Honda’s The Other Side video
– and most recently, the use of X by the Australian editor Clayton Jacobson to cut his wildly imaginative 2D music video composites.
Both these stories were posted on the FCP.co website
These present very specific evidence of editors finding that X allows them to cut high level work in X in ways that Avid or Premier or any other NLE simply can’t do. No, it’s not that you can’t successfully edit these same projects in any other NLE, of course you can. But the unique processes in X makes the work more efficient and more CREATIVE – (not according to me, but according to the editing professionals posting these examples.)
The bottom line is that there IS a growing body of evidence that the way Apple reconstituted X has lead to editors who use it to leverage the new thinking into ACTUAL editorial improvements in their work – compared to what they used to do in their traditional NLEs.
That does NOT appear to be the case outside of X. Which makes a lot of sense, since other NLEs haven’t really done much to actually change their actual editorial process.
If you feel different, post away. But there IS a growing body of evidence that X editors are encouraged to not just keep the editorial skills that they came to the software with – but to improve them – basically leveraging what X can do inside the editorial environment itself – that they either couldn’t or just didn’t do before.
You may think that’s an accident. I tend to think it’s that new thinking leads to new ideas and new inspiration. But that’s certainly open for debate.
My 2 cents anyway.
Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com – video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.
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[Bill Davis] “So my post stands. That I couldn’t recall ONE post out of literally thousands is perfectly reasonable.”
Well then, here’s number two – different thread
“and your replies remind me of a crusty old man so set in his ways he can’t even be open minded to the concept of working differently…i feel so sorry for you to be so close minded…i guess thats why you hate fcp x then….you are just unwilling to accept change! typical of the old farts who are becoming dinosaurs of the post world……”
https://forums.creativecow.net/readpost/335/15673
I’m sure there is much that you don’t recall, especially if it negates your point.
And yes, I too am enjoying this.
Nothing like being right at someone else’s expense. There must be a German word for this.
Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
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nothin’ attached to nothin’
“Deciding the spine is the process of editing” F. Bieberkopf -
[Herb Sevush] ” There must be a German word for this.”
Fahrvergnügen? 😉
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~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~”It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools.”~
~”The function you just attempted is not yet implemented”~ -
[Walter Soyka] “For me, this forum is at its best when we are open to the possibilities each offering presents. Shutting that down by promoting an FCP X monoculture and dismissing anyone not using FCP X as lateral movers would exclude some really interesting conversation.”
But Water, this forum has never even been CLOSE to being an FCP X monoculture.
If anyone wants to count the posts (and whole threads) about Premier – I’d be interested in the number. Or the posts that referenced AVID. Or Vegas.
And again, perhaps it’s “posting PTSD” – but I still remind myself that whenever I say something positive about X I have to make dammed sure I follow it with a sentence acknowledging that Premier and AVID are fine tools as well. Thats awfully tiresome. But it comes directly out of an environment when X was the derided underdog from day one.
I had someone who’s lurked here regularly but was discussing this on another board jokingly suggest that I’d spent the last 3 years defending X on this forum with an “iron hand”. The interesting thing was how he followed that with the observation that everyone else excited about X had simple long ago left for other neighborhoods, not wanting to put up with the constant X (and X supporter!) bashing here.
Yes, “dinosaur” became a pejorative meme in these parts. But so did variants of the equally pejorative FCP X fanboy.
So who wants to do the equivalent post count comparing usage of each?
Oh, and Happy Holidays Walter!- perhaps we can hang out a bit at NAB again in April. I hope you and yours have a great 2015!
Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com – video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.
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[Herb Sevush] “Nothing like being right at someone else’s expense. There must be a German word for this.”
I nominate Schadenflop.
or perhaps Schadenflip?
Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com – video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.
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[Bill Davis] “Nope.”
Andrew: I think the guy is talking about things like new workflows in FCPX.
Bill: Nope. What the guy is talking about is new workflows in FCPX.
Andrew: ??? -
[Bill Davis] “That’s one of many of the very smart changes that Apple made in X when they re-conceived it.
“If only they had imagined a way to re-sync clips easily, or even add sync markers as well
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