RedShark News: Opinion: Which are the best NLEs right now?

[John Rofrano]

[Andrew Kimery] “That’s what’s known as a track assignment failure. ;)”

lol… that’s a good one. 😀

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com

[John Rofrano]

[Michael Gissing] “X has effectively solved the basic problem but in doing so has lost some of the human organisational power of a track based display and the ability to have clip AND track based audio processing plus sub bussing. The combination of conected clips, mag timeline and Roles still looks inferior to me compared to DAWs. “

I really miss having buses! In Vegas Pro I had a Master Video Bus and a Master Audio Bus and I could throw a broadcast safe plug-in on the master video bus and a brick wall limiter on the master audio bus and I was all set. I haven’t figured out how to do this in FCP X yet but I assume it has something to do with roles. I tend to agree I don’t have the flexibility of sub-bussing anymore and I miss it. I hope once I fully understand roles I can get some of it back.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com

[Herb Sevush]

[Bill Davis] “Just to keep the record clear, I don’t remember anyone on the pro-X side ever actually calling those who don’t like it “dinosaurs.””

https://forums.creativecow.net/readpost/335/10927

“there is no room for the old farts that are set in their ways..they are the dinosaurs of the post industry…period!”

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
—————————
nothin’ attached to nothin’
“Deciding the spine is the process of editing” F. Bieberkopf

[Oliver Peters]

[John Rofrano] “I haven’t figured out how to do this in FCP X yet but I assume it has something to do with roles”

Nope. No way to do this in X. Roles is how many of us think it *could* happen, but for now you have to use Compound Clips. IMHO audio functionality for doing real mixes is a LOT better in PProCC.

– Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com

[Chris Harlan]

[Oliver Peters] “IMHO audio functionality for doing real mixes is a LOT better in PProCC.”

The Sends capabilities in PPro ARE pretty impressive for an NLE. Also, clip and track mixers both functioning simultaneously. It’s pretty cool.

[David Mathis]

Been curious to what others think about doing a rough cut in Resolve then sending the edit over to FCP X and another program for dealing with audio. Resolve has much better keyframing and trimming, which has me thinking in this direction. Will be interesting to see what BMD has up their sleeves, especially with Fusion over the short term.

[Jeremy Garchow]

[Herb Sevush] “[Bill Davis] “Just to keep the record clear, I don’t remember anyone on the pro-X side ever actually calling those who don’t like it “dinosaurs.””

https://forums.creativecow.net/readpost/335/10927

“there is no room for the old farts that are set in their ways..they are the dinosaurs of the post industry…period!””

I did a post on this. I looked for dinosaur, not dinosaurs. I missed this post. This is my fault. I have more work to do.

[Tim Wilson]

Aside from this particular quote, the idea is quite common. “Dinosaur” has become shorthand for the idea that all modern, forward-thinking editors will choose FCPX, and the only people who choose other NLEs, or stick with their old NLEs, are ones with outdated workflows that need refreshing.

It’s an interesting flip from the early days of the forum, where the default position was very much a version of the opposite — X’s necessarily niche-y role, to the extent that it was viable at all, and it mostly wasn’t. Certainly the first shifts were courtesy of specific updates from Apple to address early shortcomings or to finish baking features that were originally half-baked at best.

But I’m not aware of anyone who said, “Wow, this is exactly the way I’ve always wanted to work. Finally I can overcome the rewiring I had to do in order to use other NLEs. THIS is how MY mind has always worked.” The biggest shift in attitude came as people DID rewire themselves, and found it good.

That’s why it’s always worthwhile to revisit this topic. There are people on this very thread who’d never tried either X or Premiere Pro this time last year — maybe even last summer. Others have tried both in the past year, or have deepened their skills in both in meaningful ways,and can for the first time provide insight based on experience with the latest versions of each.

As long as people are wrapping their heads around X for the first time, or keep adding another tool to the bag, or TRYING to, or giving up on X or WHATEVER, the conversation stays alive. It’s always worth taking the temperature of the room. It changes.

I was also intrigued by the RedShark guy’s experience that what he’d prefer to use and what the client prefers are different, but that he’s okay with both. The fact is that the FCP community was the most mono-cultural group in the COW, with the possible exception of the Vegas folks…but now, heritage FCP-ers are more likely than anyone to be thoroughly fluent in more than one NLE, with fluency in all 3 major A companies quite common. Simply unprecedented, anywhere in the COW, and I’d wager anywhere in the industry. Virtually nobody used to say, “You need to know ’em all.” Quite the contrary.

And now, there’s nowhere more likely to hear some similar statement than here…except to the extent that mono-culture is returning, only this time wearing an X. No need to use anything else, because no matter what your workflow, X works best, and I have the examples to prove that there’s no workflow that X hasn’t more than licked.

Which means that the notion that there’s something limited in the thinking of people who don’t choose X, that they haven’t chosen X because they haven’t GOTTEN it, and once they GET it, of COURSE they’ll use it — is becoming more and more common, with or without the D word, the presence of which is nevertheless implied.

[Andrew Kimery]

[Tim Wilson] “heritage FCP-ers are more likely than anyone to be thoroughly fluent in more than one NLE, with fluency in all 3 major A companies quite common. Simply unprecedented, anywhere in the COW, and I’d wager anywhere in the industry. “

I think this is a testament to how the three A’s have all improved their offerings while at the same time each fumbled away their respective opportunities to really get a leg up on the competition.

[Tim Wilson]

[Andrew Kimery] “I think this is a testament to how the three A’s have all improved their offerings while at the same time each fumbled away their respective opportunities to really get a leg up on the competition.”

I think it’s equally true that some FCP-ers felt so thoroughly burned that they’ll never trust Apple or anyone else again. They’re hedging their bets against further pain.

(You may have some distant memory of a fellow who was so dismayed by Avid’s mishandling of DS that he left both it and Windows behind to go both feet into FCP…only to be dismayed by X, return to Windows for Premiere Pro…only to be dismayed by a subscription-only future. He’s no longer in this business at all. An extreme case, but thoroughly documented.)

For one reason or another (workflow, format support, etc), some legacy FCP-ers have also NEEDED to make their next NLE moves, and found that not even the combination of Media Composer, Premiere Pro, and X makes them as happy as FCP did, but only the combination covers their needs.

So this unparalleled flexibility is in fact being driven by dinosaurs who find themselves unwilling or unable to commit to X, rather than the forward thinkers now settling into an X-only mindset that’s calcifying even harder than the hardest-core FCP-er ever had.

Note that I’m personally passing no judgments. If there’s an earlier proponent of X here than me, then I don’t remember him. To this day, I may be the only one who said that Apple’s rollout plan was flawless, and that keeping FCP 7 alive for a single second after the release of X would have been spectacularly misguided insanity. I was certainly the first, and spent months fighting uphill with that argument against all comers.

I’ve also said that “learn them all” is for most people a waste of time to be avoided, while also being a vocal fan of both Premiere Pro and Media Composer from long before any of this started. Makes no nevermind to me.

I’m just trying to use language in a way that annoys the largest number of people by overstating their position from the opposite perspective. LOL

But I honestly don’t think it’s as simple as saying that all of these options represent progress for every user — even though I also entirely agree with you that all the A’s, including X, have considerably raised their game in the last three and a half years since the X-pocalypse.