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Proxy workflow for Avid
With the demise of FCP it’s interesting seeing the choices are making as they move onto something “new,” as an editorial solution. Here I’m looking at going back to Avid after 11 years away from it. It’s changed a lot since I started with it in the late 80s. Getting back up to speed hasn’t even been that tough—so much has remained the same. But the real issue is the integration of CatDV with Avid. It’s not nearly as nice as it is with FCP, but it looks like it will work. Still, I had a very nice workflow with FCP and CatDV and I’d like to have something approximating it. Add to that the fact that we’ve been slowing becoming more file based by capturing our HDCam footage to ProRes files, saving them and then doing preliminary editing in FCP using CatDV proxies. With hundreds of hours of footage always online as proxies it’s made life a lot easier.
I’ve got CatDV, with the MXF option and the Calibrated plugin, reading and playing Avid MXF files that are created by capturing off tape. I can import an Avid ALE file of the Avid bins into CatDV and retain the bin naming and project information from Avid. I can make small and portable proxy files as motion jpeg MOV files. I can export a FCP XML file from CatDV to Avid. But then I get stuck. How am I going to relink from the proxies to the high rez DNxHD files? Should I be using Avid to create some low rez media first and bring those into CatDV? I’m trying to get at least a picture of the workflow in my head before I start capturing a few hundred more hours of footage into Avid. Note that I’m only talking about new captures from tape. I also have to deal with all my ProRes quicktime files already sitting on dozens of hard drives. Well, I always wanted an interesting life.
Anyone point me at a reasonable workflow? I’ve already heard some noises from people at Avid. Seems they want a better integration with CatDV as they get more competitive in siphoning off editors as they move away from FCP.
RobbNon-linear: all the time and nothing but.
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22 Replies
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The funny thing about Avid from where I sit is the best thing and the worst thing about Avid is the same thing, their closed software architecture. If your all Avid through and through the workflows are really impressive but the minute you toss a third party in the mix all bets are off…..
That said I have a customer that has a cool workflow with Avid that I think may help you picture this? They have two sets of Hi res footage and online and offline DNx. They have a single proxy mp4 I believe and depending on what storage you have mounted you get the appropriate hi res footage. In their case most everyone gets the offline 36 to 1 and the finishing folks get the full DNxHD and some folks only get the proxies.
The challenge in you situation is the re-linking on the Avid side with the AMA. This is still not a really great workflow until Avid can more easily bulk re-link media.
I would really like to hear what others are doing as this is not that easy! That said there is some cool Avid stuff coming soon to CatDV so stay tuned.
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Rob, we’ve been on a broadcast gig most of this last year and right as we went to holiday break we cracked a couple of things. We’re developing an interesting AMA workflow for dealing with Archive and MAM using CatDV.
In the end, Interplay is the best way to do all of this with Avid. If you can afford it, buy it. (Yes, I just said that on this forum but it’s true… IF you have the money. A lot of folks don’t.)
The auto relink in FCP has actually never been a big feature for my clients. I’m not sure why but they’ve all just seemed to get by happily without the drag and drop. If you’re just dealing with media management and archive, I feel like this AMA workflow is going to make for a pretty interesting 2013.
I’m interested to see what Squarebox brings on the Avid side. Hopefully between their coding and our workflow innovations we can deliver some solid Avid workflows.
For the record, my first CatDV client (over 5 years ago) was Avid based and still uses CatDV happily for logging and producer access even without a CatDV “hook” to Avid.
bryson
bryson “at” northshoreautomation.com
northshoreautomation.com
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I’m sure Interplay would be helpful, but it’s doubtful, here. We’re just too small a shop now. I really don’t ‘have to worry about sharing media, anymore. I’m down to exporting a project so I can work on it elsewhere.
The fact is I’ve gotten spoiled by the way CatDV works with FCP. It’s been so nice when my partner can rough out a cut in CatDV and I can open it fully populated in FCP. I’m guessing I’ll have to have two different approaches: one for tape-based media and one for file-based. If each project was separate and distinct it would be easy. But we’re constantly repurposing footage. It’s actually more important for me to have all my CatDV proxies online so we can draw from dozens of different shoots to build a show. Lots more paper and pencils, I’m guessing—forward into the past. Still I”m expecting things to get better. After all, despite all the improvements and capabilities of current NLEs, there are still functions missing, or less poorly implemented than those of some systems from the 80s. There’s room for improvement. At least I’m not alone in wanting/needing a better connection between Avid and CatDV. Think of all those poor bastards out there who haven’t caught onto CatDV yet.
Non-linear: all the time and nothing but.
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Interplay all dialed in is impressive no doubt about it. Reality for us video folks is no MAM, DAM, PAM out there that I am aware of can integrate with Media Composer and all the other groovy Avid tools as seamlessly as Interplay. On that note I don’t think Interplay is even an apples to apples comparison with CatDV. Example being with a budget for Interplay I would still have some CatDV in the mix. A server with a few few Worker Nodes in the workflow or at least a desktop seat or two lying around. CatDV is like a swiss army knife in a file based workflow.
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Hi Rob
check out MME at https://www.mme.tv. This gives you a way of logging in Catdv and compiling an AAF file that you can drag and drop into an Avid bin . Best place to start is to drag your AvidMediaFile>MXF>1 folder into Catdv as you say you already have the Calibrated plugin . Follow the instructions to install the jar.extension file into Catdv and then you will have a right click menu in the Browser window SEND to MME . WIth the native files stuff will auto relink metadata will be in your bin and off you go. Be aware that 6.5.1 and upwards is a complete re-write of AAF from Avid and that currently we only support Avids earlier but don`t worry we have licked this problem and are testing internally and plan to release the latest version into the wild shortly. There are a couple of movies that show teach you about AMA relinking etc but start as indicated . BBC Natural History Unit have been using this workflow for nearly a year now with no issues on colossal amounts of footage.
Kevin Duggan
CatDV/MME -
Kevin, I think I might have this client in LA set up to use MME. Timeline and politics-wise it’s been a long one. (Just tons of documentation and training, you know the drill.) But I believe that it might be a solid spot to implement MME or at least confirm that Avid is catching up to your forward-thinking workflow.
I’ll hit you off the board and discuss but I think we’ll all have a very different landscape in the coming months for these sorts of workflows.
Rob, I hear ya, in places where producers can and will do a rough cut, it’s pretty nice to have it waiting for you. 😉 I’ll keep the board posted on this as it move along. We just got it rolling right before the break, as I said.
Question for ya, is it mostly the rough cut or are you also using the included clip “user” metadata in your edit process?
bryson
bryson “at” northshoreautomation.com
northshoreautomation.com
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Hi Bryson
AMA relinking of P2 and XDCam looking solid on new builds , if you can get people to understand how the Avid works then you are more than half way home … MC 6.5.1 and upwards are a little more relaxed in this area , maybe Avid are moving but it is a thorny issue to discuss as the Tape and TImecode is time honoured and known to be robust …Stay well and good luck with the project 🙂
Kevin Duggan
CatDV/MME -
Robb,
I know you posted this about Avid with CatDV, and that you mentioned thinking about moving to Avid. Based on your workflow comments, if you haven’t bit the bullet on Avid yet, I would highly recommend giving Adobe Premiere CS6 a try, it feels like an extension/updated version of FCP7 with some Avid style editing tools as well, and it’s integration with CatDV is a real pleasure to work with more similar to how it is with FCP7.
Best Regards,
-CaspianProduct Specialist
Studio Network Solutions -
Yes, the reason I use CatDV — it fills in all the blanks, literally and figuratively. No editing system out there deals well with logging. And logging is really the key to anything non-linear. It’s the logs, not the editing software.
Non-linear: all the time and nothing but.
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Good point Caspian, the new Premiere plugin is very cool with the ability to search CatDV from within Premiere 6. I would say if you are a CatDV user and planning on switching from FCP7 Premiere has to be a consideration.
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