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Prores422 vs. DVCPRO50 SD Smackdown preliminary results
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I think you make your best point at the end, with regards to ProRes in HD. I’m not sure I see the point in an SD enviroment – as you said, both look good, have minor advatages/disadvantages, and really it comes down to hardware support (for example if you have Kona acceleration). Personally, we usually work in uncompressed 10-bit in SD, because we can, and storage is cheap (and we don’t work longform).
I think the HD route is a much more compelling argument. Not that DVCProHD is not a good codec, it’s just that ProRes HQ is frickin’ great. I have just started various RED projects, and spent the last week doing camera tests. As part of that workflow testing, I have created uncompressed and ProRes files from the 4K originals (which are as beautiful as they say, believe me) and using a 24″ full-raster 1080p monitor, I can’t see the difference on 2k and 1080p files. One is 145MB/s, the other is 20. Amazing, and the 10-bit depth allows me to keep as much of the control for colouring as I reasonably need. Now, it’s only useful if you want to stay Apple (btw – you can install ProRes codecs seperate from FCP, and play them in QT Player etc., so it’s not true to say it’s FCP only – although I don’t know how they behave in AE), so for other clients we will have to deliver uncompressed, but still…
When Apple lauched ProRes they made far more of the HD uses of ProRes, and I think that was for good reason – there are many more useable SD options, but 10-bit HD ones? Notsomuch. And by ‘useable’ I mean ‘playable on portable solutions’. That matters more and more when you are capturing and backing up in the field on solid-state recording mediums. And soon, that will be ALL recording, whether we like it or not – tape will be dead in a pretty short number of years, at least for high-end and broadcast – although I appreciate it may take longer in some places than it is obviously going to here in the UK, where I give tape 5 years.
I wish you didn’t have such an axe to grind on Apple – I think it colours a good piece, and confuses your message. Apple are building a proprietory world, and ProRes is the center-piece. I don’t think that’s a particularly unusual solution for a hardware company to pursue.
Ben
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You have been using a tricky codec. Avid DV codecs use Chroma filtering. So if you want to compare it with any other 422 codec, you should apply the other footage something like the Nattress “Chroma Sharpening”. Render the two of them in a 10b Unc sequence and compare it.
Mac OX 10.5.2-FC 6.02-QT 7.4.1
G5 2x2Gh 4GbRAM-BlackMagic Extreme
PMBP 17″Core2Duo 4GbRAM-AJA ioHD
JVC DTV-17″
SONY EX-1 . SONY PD170
..and always a big mess on top of the table. -
[Nate Stephens] “Does it make for better Chroma Keys? “
Oh yessir. That’s exactly the test we shot. It was for green screen.
Jeremy
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I don’t use mirrored, so I get 640 Gigs.
I am telling you, you have to see it to believe it.
Also, you forgot to add “priceless” to the end of your list there: 🙂
Jeremy[Nate Stephens] “2.5”sata enclosures $30, 160gig sata drive $100 total $260 for 2 sata drives 160gig mirrored location recording”
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[Ben Holmes] “I wish you didn’t have such an axe to grind on Apple – I think it colours a good piece, and confuses your message. Apple are building a proprietory world, and ProRes is the center-piece. I don’t think that’s a particularly unusual solution for a hardware company to pursue. “
Cory’s results and his efforts to let everyone know is applaudable but the tone and off hand comments made the article from bring a great FAQ article to just being a mere rant with some good info. And it’s not because he’s snarky about Apple. If I read the same tone against Avid, Adobe or etc, I’d think the same.
CHL
Chi-Ho Lee
Film & Video Editor
Apple Certified Final Cut Pro Trainer
http://www.chiholee.com -
Avid DV50 is a 4:2:2 codec, just like ProRes, unless I’ve been misinformed.. DV25 is chroma sampled 4:1:1, but DV50 codecs should be 4:2:2.
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Hey man, can you email me the Aja Deck polling script fix? Having some “deck trouble” issues this morning and the search function sent me your way.
oops… email me at cory at spacecadet.com
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Yes Cori, DV25 is 411/420. DV50 is 422. But the difference in between the Appel DV50 and the AVID DV50 is that the AVID uses Chroma filtering. AVID is applying a filter on top of the original 411/420 information. The Apple codec shows exactly what you have recorded in your tape. The AVID will show the same but with a bit of Make-up. Will look better but will make you loose a generation.
You get the same in Proress when you check “Enable 4:4:4 Chroma filtering”. In fact is the same information (Y,Cr,Cb) but displayed in two different ways.
The problem of the AVID codec is that you can not disable that filtering.Mac OX 10.5.2-FC 6.02-QT 7.4.1
G5 2x2Gh 4GbRAM-BlackMagic Extreme
PMBP 17″Core2Duo 4GbRAM-AJA ioHD
JVC DTV-17″
SONY EX-1 . SONY PD170
..and always a big mess on top of the table. -
[rafael amador] “DV25 is 411/420. DV50 is 422”
DV50 is 4:2:0 in PAL also is it not?
gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows
Inside look at the IoHD -
from what I have read from the prores paper it is really clear
IT IS FOR HD
not sd
maybe take a look at the details at this white paper it is on the apple site at bottom of additional resources
I am interested the difference between uncompressed 1080 HD 10 bit 4.2.2 compared to prores 422 hq
I think it has been mentioned in nearly every article I have ever read that prores is hd, why is no one just responding to this post with this answer straight?
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Check my podcast at https://cowcast.creativecow.net/final_cut_pro/index.html
or my site at
https://www.benscottarts.co.uk/ – – – – – – – – –
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