Pro Res to Vegas 13

[James Magda]

John,

I just ordered an Atomos Samurai Blade to edit its output on Sony Vegas Pro 13 based on this link of yours:

https://johnrofrano.com/training/video-tutorials/avid-dnxhd-template-for-vegas-pro/

But now in this forum you’re saying NOT to. Which is right?

Jim

[George Dean]

Hi Mims,

I use an Atomos Samurai Blade hooked up to an old Canon. Either ProRes 422HQ or DNxHD220X. First step in my workflow is to render the originals in CineForm (Filmscan 2 [yes, I know this is overkill]) in an .avi container. From there I keep it in CineForm until the delivery format selected. Vegas Pro 13 seems to like this.

Or, render an intermediate in Sony XAVC-Intra (mxf). I wrestled with the MOV thing attempting to keep the 10 bit 4:2:2 various ways, until I finally decided to just add the extra step. I’m not changing my camera, I’m not changing the Atomos, I’m never going to a MAC, and I doubt I will change from Vegas. It is what it is, so I improvised and overcome! It may not be the best, but it is working for me. Just a thought…..

Best Regards……George

[Russ Froze]

[James Magda] ” Which is right?”

James, it is not a problem both Apple and Avid codecs work fine. If the plan is to edit on a Mac then use the Prorez option and if planning for PC use the DnxHd option in the Atomos product. Now I stated fine not great. Preview quality depends on the power of the edit station. Both codecs are 10 bit so they need a little extra from the CPU processor.

At the end of the day what is desirable is the best image quality for the job at hand. Think final delivery and choose the codec based on that. Capturing at the highest settings make it possible to strip colour info encode to 8 bit, but colour can not be added after. Also consider a proxy workflow. Think negatives instead of digital files.
Russ Froze

[James Magda]

This is my edit station:

Intel Quad Core i5-6600 Processor 303Ghz – 3.9Ghz Turbo
ADATA Extreme DDR4 2400MHz Memory – 16GB
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 960 – 2GB GDDR5
ADATA Performance 240GB SSD
Western Digital Black 1TB – 7200RPM 3.5″ HDD (where my files will reside)
Windows 10 Home Premium 64-Bit

Do you think I’m good to go? Or do I need MORE POWER, as Tim Taylor would say.

[Russ Froze]

Hi, it’s a fair machine but for the processor being an I5 not I7 and for vegas a AMD video card seems better suited. That said I still run a AMD hex core Phenom and because I’ve use Fusion since ver 4, I have a Quardro 4000 video card. Many will say Vegas does not use the cuda cores, that is not what I have found. For my system when encoding or preview has been seen to use up to 80% of the cuda cores.

Unless money is no object. There comes a time where decisions need to be made between image input and output. The Blade records 1080P does it not? Then a good choice would be the Avid codec for it suffers not from the 32 bit restrictions of the quicklime decoder. If Vegas is left in the default 8 bit mode there should be a very comfortable editing experience. Now set Vegas to 32 bit colour and things will slow down on this build. Still it should serve the purpose.
Russ Froze

[John Rofrano]

[James Magda] “I just ordered an Atomos Samurai Blade to edit its output on Sony Vegas Pro 13 based on this link of yours:

https://johnrofrano.com/training/video-tutorials/avid-dnxhd-template-for-veg...

But now in this forum you’re saying NOT to. Which is right?”

If you read the explanation in my link, I was recommending that Avid DNxHD is a good format for editors who are on a PC and need to collaborate with editors on a Mac. I never said it was a good format for editors on a PC to just use for themselves or to buy a camera that shoots QuickTime.

Here are my *exact* words from the opening paragraph of that tutorial:

“Quite often I’m asked what’s the best format to work with in Vegas Pro when you need to collaborate with Final Cut Pro editors on a Mac. The best codec I have found is the free Avid DNxHD QuickTime codec. The reason I use this codec in addition to it’s superior quality for mastering, is because it doesn’t suffer from the gamma shifts that some other PC codecs have when transferred to the Mac. With Avid DNxHD, you get the gamma levels you expect, and the quality you need.“

The rest of the tutorial shows you how to create a Render Template, so the recommendation is to render to Avid DHxHD to send to a Mac.

Here are the facts:

• Vegas Pro chokes on too many QuickTime files.
• Does Vegas Pro work with editing QuickTime? Yes (to a point).
• Can you render to QuickTime Avid DNxHD? Yes (if you make a template like in my tutorial).
• Should you use QuickTime as your main editing format with Vegas Pro: No! Absolutely NOT!!!

QuickTime is the native format on a Mac. If you want to buy a camera that shoots QuickTime, my advice is to also buy a Mac. Camera manufacturers build cameras that shoot Apple ProRes 422 to make a Mac workflow easier. If you buy one of these cameras and don’t have a Mac, you are defeating the purpose of owning a camera that shoots QuickTime ProRes which is all ready to drop onto your Final Cut Pro timeline without any transcoding.

If you need to edit QuickTime on a PC and you don’t have too many files, Vegas Pro is fine. For example, I usually shoot stage performances. Last weekend, I shot a coffee house style performance where the musician played 2 sets. I had exactly two 45 minute files to edit (I just kept the camera rolling during each set). Had these been QuickTime files I would have been fine with these 2 files (they were not). Had I had a lot of QuickTime files from starting and stopping the camera, Vegas Pro would have had problems.

So I never recommended that PC editors work with QuickTime. My recommendation was, that if you had to collaborate with Mac editors, then you need to send them QuickTime files, and Avid DNxHD is the QuickTime format that is closest to the Apple ProRes 422 that Mac editors use but PC editors can’t create.

Hope that clears things up.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasstsoftware.com

[John Rofrano]

[George Dean] “First step in my workflow is to render the originals in CineForm (Filmscan 2 [yes, I know this is overkill]) in an .avi container. From there I keep it in CineForm until the delivery format selected.”

This is exactly what buying the Atomos Samurai Blade avoids if you own a Mac. It shoots edit ready files for Mac editors. No transcoding required.

For many years the Mac workflow was to take whatever format the camera shoots natively, and transcode it to ProRes 422 as the first step. Now camera manufacturers are making cameras and recorders that shoot ProRes 422 directly so there is no need for the transcoding step on the Mac anymore.

If you are a PC editor, however, you should do exactly what George is doing… convert the QuickTime files to a PC friendly format. CineForm AVI is a great choice for Vegas Pro editors.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasstsoftware.com

[George Dean]

@ William Mims….”I am shooting Pro Res on Atomos Samurai Blade with a Sony EX3 for a client that edits on Mac in Pro Res.
I want to use the Samurai and edit on Sony Vegas Pro 13.”

I think William is shooting on the Atomos for his client, but also wants to use the ProRes.mov in Vegas for his own purpose. If this is the case, he probably has the best tool and only needs to make something like CineForm intermediates for his own purpose.

William, just for clarity, are you sending the Atomos .mov to your client as is, or do you first want to edit them in Vegas, then send them on to your client as ProRes.mov? If this is the case……you are never going to get there. Vegas can not produce a ProRes.mov file. You could make a DNxHD.mov file for the client, but in that case you may want to record in DNxHD220X from the Atomos. However, regardless of how you would do these, if you tough the video in Vegas and render it out, it is going to be different inside in some way from the original ProRes. Maybe that difference is OK with your client, maybe not.

Best Regards…..George

[George Dean]

tough = put

Damm, I can’t figure out how to edit post?!?!?

[William Mims]

Yes, George, I was sending the ‘raw’ files to the client in another state for him to edit. All was well, then after that client I wanted to use the Atomos for my own projects-that’s when I ran into all the problems. I love the look of the Blade footage on the Atomos monitor-just can’t get Vegas to work. I think I have come to the end of the line with Vegas Pro. When I looked at the blade I don’t recall Atomos advertising: “This will not work with Sony Vegas/Windows platforms. Only works with a Mac.”
As I make the transition to feature film 4K needs with a different camera like a AJA Cion or Black Magic Ursa Mini(?), the Sony Vegas Pro software system may have to be left behind for something better suited for the volume of 4K files and 90 minute+ project lengths.
I appreciate everyone’s input on this thread, I have learned a lot about the world of computer editing. Thanks.

Mims