Premiere Pro CS6 – Zooms in Post giving me terrible looking – ghosting / interlacing like lines

[Ivan Myles]

There might be another cause, but it looks like a Field mismatch among the source files, sequence, and export parameters. Please post the settings for each. Are there any commonalities among the clips that work and the ones that don’t? Have you tried exporting a few test clips to see if the issue persists with different codecs?

[Sam Bright]

Thanks for that…. Appreciate it!!!! Will try to provide info best possible….

4K files however im delivering as 1920×1080 sequence.

I’m now wondering if i should have created a 1920×1080 sequence and resized the red footage as opposed to working in a 4K sequence and just export at 1920×1080….

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Sequence is :

Editing mode – custom (not sure why it doesnt say RED. Hopefully this doesn’t effect anything)
timebase 25fps

video 3840×2160 (16:9)

Pixel Aspect Ratio : Square Pixels
Fields : No Fields (progressive scan)
Display Format : 25fps timecode

Video previews – i-frame only mpeg (hope this isn’t wrong or effecting my exports)
mpeg I-frame
1920×1080

Maximum bit depth or render quality are not selected in here however when i export the project i tick maximum render quality… (Also side note i have noticed some banding issues in a few shots having come back from a grade after exporting to ProResHQ for grader…mabye to do with the max bit depth option not being ticked)

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Export Settings which have given the same issue…

Animation Codec….
ProResHQ
H264

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One of the source file in question ( theres a couple but all the same )

C003_C033_0510V9_001.R3D
Type: RED R3D Raw File
File Size: 2.2 GB
Image Size: 3840 x 2160
Frame Rate: 25.00
Total Duration: 00:00:38:01
Pixel Aspect Ratio: 1.0

Red R3D Details:

Camera Firmware Version: 4.0.6
Minimum Color Version: 2
Resolution: 3840×2160
FrameRate Num: 25000
FrameRate Den: 1000
Reel ID: 003
Timecode Preference: Absolute
Edge Timecode: 01:20:59:11
Absolute Timecode: 20:44:08:21
Camera ID: C
Clip ID: 033
Brightness: 0
Contrast: 0
Digital Gain Blue: 1
Digital Gain Green: 1
Digital Gain Red: 1
Exposure Compensation: 0
Exposure Time: 2e+04
GenLock Setting: 0
GMT Date: 20130510
GMT Time: 204408
ISO: 1000
Jam Sync Setting: 0
Local Date: 20130510
Local Time: 204408
Saturation: 1
Shutter Degrees: 180
Shutter Fractions: 50
White Balance Kelvin: 5600
White Balance Tint: -10

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In regards to clips that are working with zooms, i believe it ‘may’ be because it is completely static then punching in whereas the others might have some movement in the shot or the camera is moving itself….

Any thoughts would be appreciated. Even in regards to RED Workflow…

Workflow

Edit in Premiere Pro (settings above)
Export to ProResHQ (no gradient banding visible however, zoom lines are)
Friend graded in Resolve Lite then exported me ProResHQ (with banding on a few shot gradients -2nd issue)

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Cheers,

Sam

[Ivan Myles]

[Sam Bright] “I’m now wondering if i should have created a 1920×1080 sequence and resized the red footage as opposed to working in a 4K sequence and just export at 1920×1080….”

1920×1080 would probably be better because of scaling for the digital zoom and resource load on your system. Create a new sequence and test a few of the problem clips.

[Sam Bright] “Editing mode – custom (not sure why it doesnt say RED. Hopefully this doesn’t effect anything)”

“Editing mode” shows the name of the Preset. The name itself doesn’t matter, but the corresponding sequence settings do. It is listed as “Custom” when a setting is changed from the preset.

[Sam Bright] “Video previews – i-frame only mpeg (hope this isn’t wrong or effecting my exports)”

It will not affect output as long as “Use Previews” is disabled in the export settings.

[Sam Bright] “Maximum bit depth or render quality are not selected in [sequence settings]”

That’s OK.

[Sam Bright] “however when i export the project i tick maximum render quality…”

Good. Also enable “Render at Maximum Depth” and select 48 bit (for ProRes).

[Sam Bright] “(Also side note i have noticed some banding issues in a few shots having come back from a grade after exporting to ProResHQ for grader…mabye to do with the max bit depth option not being ticked)”

Quite possibly, and the “48 bit” setting, too. If the previous rendering was performed at 8-bit, the banding could be related to RBG-YCC color conversion. Are there any effects applied to the clips in Premiere? Are the luma and RGB values all between 0-100 IRE on the YC Waveform and RGB Parade scopes?

Questions:

– Do the zoom lines appear with all export codecs or just ProRes?
– Please list or post a screen capture image of Your ProRes export settings including the “Codec Settings” popup. Did you export the ProRes file using 1920×1080 or 1440×1080?
– Are the source, sequence, and export settings all set to Progressive fields and the same frame rate?

[Chris Tompkins]

I would edit in a 1920×1080 sequence.
Room to move.

Chris

[Sam Bright]

Hey mate,

Thanks for all your information so far. Really really appreciate it.

So to recap… actually have 2 problems…

1) Post zooms creating dodgy lines
2) Gradient in 3 shots creating annoying banding (this happened to me in a previous project which was black and white and i never solved it – always felt quite frustrated about this)

[Sam Bright] “I’m now wondering if i should have created a 1920×1080 sequence and resized the red footage as opposed to working in a 4K sequence and just export at 1920×1080….”

From now on this could be a good option.

1920×1080 would probably be better because of scaling for the digital zoom and resource load on your system. Create a new sequence and test a few of the problem clips.

Tried this for one of the clips. Created the 1920×1080 project. Put in the clip from the other edit, pasted and then adjusted the scaling and size to work on this sequence. On export i tried the 48bit option which I didn’t do earlier. Still came up with the weird lines, especially prominent around edges of objects.

[Sam Bright] “Editing mode – custom (not sure why it doesnt say RED. Hopefully this doesn’t effect anything)”

“Editing mode” shows the name of the Preset. The name itself doesn’t matter, but the corresponding sequence settings do. It is listed as “Custom” when a setting is changed from the preset.

Thanks!

[Sam Bright] “Video previews – i-frame only mpeg (hope this isn’t wrong or effecting my exports)”

It will not affect output as long as “Use Previews” is disabled in the export settings.

[Sam Bright] “Maximum bit depth or render quality are not selected in [sequence settings]”

That’s OK.

Ok hope so, been reading a bit recently where people recomend ticking these.

[Sam Bright] “however when i export the project i tick maximum render quality…”

Good. Also enable “Render at Maximum Depth” and select 48 bit (for ProRes).

Tried as mentioned above.

[Sam Bright] “(Also side note i have noticed some banding issues in a few shots having come back from a grade after exporting to ProResHQ for grader…mabye to do with the max bit depth option not being ticked)”

Quite possibly, and the “48 bit” setting, too. If the previous rendering was performed at 8-bit, the banding could be related to RBG-YCC color conversion. Are there any effects applied to the clips in Premiere? Are the luma and RGB values all between 0-100 IRE on the YC Waveform and RGB Parade scopes?

Yeah, well theres only 3 shots with banding and they are all on typical gradients which would encounter it from what ive read. I’ve attached one photo below. It could also be when converting to black and white in the grade that it hasnt helped either. or someone told me if they grade it on resolve and simply give me the xml i can do the export myself straight from premier, as opposed to them grading the proreshq master and then re-exporting another version for me to use.

Questions:

– Do the zoom lines appear with all export codecs or just ProRes?
Seems to be all codecs.

– Please list or post a screen capture image of Your ProRes export settings including the “Codec Settings” popup. Did you export the ProRes file using 1920×1080 or 1440×1080?

1920×1080

– Are the source, sequence, and export settings all set to Progressive fields and the same frame rate?
Yup!

p.s. The lines may not be really obvious in those clips, but they are def there.

Sam

p.s. Gradient banding shot :

[Sam Bright]

Thanks Chris, will do moving forward.

[Sam Bright]

Actually Its late but think you may have been right. I’ll check again in the morning but I believe I might have not been ticking the Progressive box below the proreshq codec in export…

Hypothetically would this create the type of ghosting shift lines shown in above photos?

If so, then its possibly just that gradient now to be tackled.

Will check again in morning with clear eyes.

Sam

[Ivan Myles]

[Sam Bright] “I believe I might have not been ticking the Progressive box below the proreshq codec in export… Hypothetically would this create the type of ghosting shift lines shown in above photos?”

Yes. Also, please import the final file into Premiere and view at 100% zoom. We need to rule out any potential issues with the media player.

When you re-render the file, please take screen captures of all the export settings in Premiere Pro. Post here if the problem persists.

[Sam Bright] “If so, then its possibly just that gradient now to be tackled.”

Compare the “Composite Video” and “All Scopes” images in Premiere Pro for one of the frames with banding using:

– the edited sequence viewed in the Program Monitor at 100% zoom
– the exported ProRes intermediate file, imported back into Premiere Pro and viewed in the Source Monitor at 100% zoom
– the color graded ProRes file, imported into Premiere Pro and viewed in the Source Monitor at 100% zoom

There will be black stripes visible on the Y- and RGB curves where the banding occurs because neighboring luminance/color values are omitted. How much banding do you see in the Premiere export file compared to the Premiere timeline and the color-corrected file coming from Resolve?

There are several contributing factors to banding: RGB-YCC conversion, 16-235 vs 0-256 vs 10-bit color, 4:2:0 vs 4:2:2 vs 4:4:4 chroma sampling, and how color correction is applied. Here are some ways to minimize the problem:

– ensure all Premiere Pro effects applied to the clips support 32-bit processing; to be conservative, it would be better if they support RGB and YUV color, too
– use a 10-bit 4:4:4 codec for intermediate files
– export from Premiere Pro with Maximum Bit Depth enabled, 48-bit, and Maximum Render Quality enabled (as discussed previously)
– monitor the luma and RGB scopes during colorization and selectively apply effects to minimize banding
– avoid the need for intermediate files; perform color correction directly in Premiere Pro or in After Effects with dynamic links

[Sam Bright] “someone told me if they grade it on resolve and simply give me the xml i can do the export myself straight from premier, as opposed to them grading the proreshq master and then re-exporting another version for me to use.”

This can potentially help and is worth trying.

Ultimately, it will be difficult to completely eliminate banding if the final delivery codec uses 4:2:0 or even 4:2:2 chroma sub-sampling. That said, I understand the desire to minimize the issue through the process.

[Ivan Myles]

[Ivan Myles] “16-235 vs 0-256 vs 10-bit color”

Edit: 0-255

[Sam Bright]

Hey mate,

Are you an Aussie out of curiosity?

With regards to the zooming stuff… Problem a) This is solved and I appreciate your help. It was simply me accidentally exporting the ProResHQ using the Upper fields rather than progressive setting.

Now I’m just concerned about problem 2) the gradient banding…. Also the best way around it when my friend grades in Resolve Lite. Plus a way for future.

Thanks for your suggestions… While I try and work this out as some of it may be slightly over my head :
Would it be too much to ask if I email you a dropbox link to one of the shots with banding probz?

Also, when exporting using ProResHQ422, should I be enabling chroma filtering or setting gamma correction to none?

My email is info@bermudans.com

Cheers,

Sam