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Premiere and it’s revolutionary Neanderthal Technology
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As for workflow, I agree, time is key.
I set the keyboard commands in PPro to emulate the Media 100i as much as possible, so for doing my first pass on an edit, I can work as fast as in M100i, for the most part. I consider Premiere Pro to be my Media 100i plus all the features I always wished it had. The color correction is fantastic. The ease of doing motion and other keyframed effects is great.
So the lack of batch digitizing without first making subclips is a drag compared with the other systems out there, but I think a decent tradeoff considering the features available.
If one feels that a software program “doesn’t do what xyz software does” then use xyz software!Good luck to the original poster.
Mike
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[Mike Cohen] “So the lack of batch digitizing without first making subclips is a drag compared with the other systems out there, but I think a decent tradeoff considering the features available.
If one feels that a software program “doesn’t do what xyz software does” then use xyz software!”You can get a “used material only ” batch digitize by having a project trimmed in the Project Manager. You don’t need to make subclips. The Project Manager will trim all the media with the handles you specify and create a new project with the new media. Simply batch from the trimmed project at that point. Trimming a project can take anywhere from 10-30 minutes in my experience with large projects, but compared to making all those subclips…
TimK,
Kolb Syverson Communications,
Creative Cow Host,
2004-2005 NAB Post Production Conference
Premiere Pro Technical Chair,
Author, “The Easy Guide to Premiere Pro” http://www.focalpress.com
“Premiere Pro Fast Track DVD Series” http://www.classondemand.net -
[Tim Kolb] “Why do we make an Avid user responsible to get training and take classes to learn how to operate the machine to be considered a proficient editor, but somehow Premiere Pro is supposed to deliver all that functionality yet somehow Premiere Pro is defective because a user can’t simply sit down and somehow instinctively operate it without ever cracking a manual?”
Tim,
I think that’s the nature of all NLEs these days. It’s the downside of cheap software. You’ll see the same sort of issues with Avid editors who first started using Avid with Xpress DV and Xpress Pro. People would rather vent on forums than invest the time to actually read the manuals. My advice to many people if they don’t want to learn from the books and don’t want to pay for “official” training is to hire an experienced freelancer at his or her dayrate for 1-3 days and have them teach you the ins and outs of the system. This will go a long way to solving the learning curve issues.
Sincerely,
OliverOliver Peters
Post-Production & Interactive Media
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com -
That hits the nail on the head. People use a mouse until they get tired of using a mouse and learn the shortcuts. One advantage of Premiere Pro is that you can take your time learning the shortcuts if you wish. Or, set them all to your liking right away.
Remember when you first got tired of using the mouse for Copy and Paste, and finally got around to memorizing Ctrl-C and Ctrl-V? Slowly but surely we learn our way around.
Except perhaps in AE where we learn from the great Brian Maffitt who mercilessly instills the shortcuts into our memory banks. (No joke, he is a tough task master, but there is none better.)
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Get to know more Premiere Pro users here, and in other forums. Check out my web site, and maybe get a copy of this book for some interesting information.
https://www.creativecow.net/show.php?forumid=1&page=/dairy_store/amazon/book_prem.html
We are a friendly bunch. Tim Kolb and I both have DVDs for sale – more for beginners than video experts, but if you like Jacob’s book, you may want to buy his more expensive training.
Steven
Adobe Premiere Pro 1.5 / After Effects 6.5 Pro https://www.stevengotz.com
Learning Adobe Premiere Pro 1.5 https://www.lynda.com
Contributing Writer, PeachPit Press, Visual QuickPro Guide, Premiere Pro 1.5 -
Ok. This topic was not about venting of anything of the sort. At one particular moment I just got frustrated by the lack of some features in Premiere & other PPro related issues.
“LMAO…that would be a glitch wouldn’t it? I guess I never left the corrector with the split screen turned on so I never ran into it…
”You may want to try a subtler form of irony. 😛
Now, perhaps I had misinterpreted the word “preview” as english is not my mother tongue but as far as I know this is what “preview” means:
An advance showing, as of a movie or art exhibition, to which a selected audience is invited before public presentation begins.
An advance viewing or exhibition, especially the presentation of several scenes advertising a forthcoming movie; a trailer.
An introductory or preliminary message, sample, or overview; a foretaste.Seriously now. Since the switch is called split screen PREVIEW, I would certainly not expect Premiere to render half a screen, but to nicely make a split screen preview and then when I hit RETURN render the hole damned frame. Who needs a half corrected frame? I certainly wouldn’t. So, as far as I am concerned that can be at least labeled as a terminology / interface glitch. I recently had to perform some color corrections for a music video. I don’t know how many clips there were but “a lot of them” is a good estimate. Now, go figure, it actually happened to me to forget the SPLIT SCREEN PREVIEW option ON for some of them. I detected my error in time, and then again I find this render half a frame surprise to be moronic to say the least.
” People would rather vent on forums than invest the time to actually read the manuals.”
Crashes, imense rendering times & such have absolutelly nothing to do with reading manuals and are pretty good reasons to “vent on forums” as you like to say.
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[colourblind] “Seriously now. Since the switch is called split screen PREVIEW, I would certainly not expect Premiere to render half a screen, but to nicely make a split screen preview and then when I hit RETURN render the hole damned frame. Who needs a half corrected frame? I certainly wouldn’t. So, as far as I am concerned that can be at least labeled as a terminology / interface glitch. “
Perhaps my response was misinterpreted. I was agreeing with you. That would be a pretty obvious bug. In fact my sense of “irony” was to the obvious nature of the bug…
I wasn’t implying that you weren’t doing it right. I guess I typically want to preview the entire frame before I leave the color corrector, so I guess that’s why I’ve never run into this… I haven’t had a chance to see If I can reproduce this bug myself yet.
[colourblind] ”
” People would rather vent on forums than invest the time to actually read the manuals.”Crashes, imense rendering times & such have absolutelly nothing to do with reading manuals and are pretty good reasons to “vent on forums” as you like to say.”
Your post was regarding making subclips and a color corrector problem. There was no mention of crashes. PPro runs very, very solid on most systems…not that that’s much consolation when it is crashing…
There may be some conflict with something on your system that would cause crashes, but PPro has almost no(the media encoder under certain conditions would be an exception to this…) bugs in it’s code that will cause a crash that I know of and I’m using it for DV, SD, HDV, HD…lots of layers, lots of effects…I run it on P4 laptops (1.7/512, 3.2/2 Gig) and several desktops (P4 3.06/1 Gig, 3.0/512, Dual Opteron 252s/2 Gig) etc. So it’s not like I’m coasting with it.
I suppose that render times are relative. Dependent on processor power and what you’re used to… Very few systems that have significantly more real-time capabilities AND are as feature-rich as Premiere Pro are priced comparably so I guess there are bound to be differences on several levels.
I edit with Aspect HD from CineForm with 1440×1080 8 bit HD files on my laptop without any deal-breaker render breaks…and the “preview” in unrendered areas is actually watchable for flow while I’m actually cutting in most cases.
In native DV mode, there can be render delays and some effects like Magic Bullet choke the preview capability and do take a long time to render…so I guess anecdotally, yes some effects take some time to render.
Out of curiousity, what exactly crashes PPro for you?…the Media Encoder?
TimK,
Kolb Syverson Communications,
Creative Cow Host,
2004-2005 NAB Post Production Conference
Premiere Pro Technical Chair,
Author, “The Easy Guide to Premiere Pro” http://www.focalpress.com
“Premiere Pro Fast Track DVD Series” http://www.classondemand.net -
“I wasn’t implying that you weren’t doing it right. I guess I typically want to preview the entire frame before I leave the color corrector, so I guess that’s why I’ve never run into this… I haven’t had a chance to see If I can reproduce this bug myself yet.”
Ok. Sorry. It looks like I’m a bit too trigger happy. 🙂
I don’t know if it can be called a bug, but rather a well, design flaw.
“Out of curiousity, what exactly crashes PPro for you?…the Media Encoder?”
Ok. So here’s the thing.
FOr SD projects I use exclusivelly Avid Xpress Pro. However, the guys here wanted badly to have and HD suite up and running so in march they assembled the dual Opteron 4gb’s of RAM, 3TB Raid10 Array, GeForce Fx6800.
We also have a BlackMagic Design HD pro card hooked up to a 24 inch Philips monitor. The hard drives ussually run at a mean speed of 300 – 400 mb/second with a theoretical speed of 1gb/s.I don’t have the time now to give all the details but I will try to name a few things. Our first HD project was a music video originated on a
Sony 750. First problem (which it seems was not Premiere based) was that once we had less that 30% free space on the HD drive, the drives would slow down and the immediate result was that I got lost frames. As a note, I captured the footage throug the HD SDI in on the BM card, from a Sony Cinealta. (We had a Sony HDW500 for demo purposes but now it’s gone *SIGH*). That’s why with HD projects I’m forced to capture whole tapes and I cannot select material in order to avoid wearing the Cinealta’s head.
So anyway. The first thing I did was that I emptied the drives, and instead of capturing in 10 bit I captured in 8 bit just to be on the safe side. Capturing worked fine and playback also. Now I will list the things that worked and those that didn’t and related issues.1. Loading clips into monitor sometimes takes about 10 seconds.
2. For some reason, after an hour of two of editing, Premiere would not playback (timeline or footage in the monitor). This is solved by saving the project and restarting Premiere. Sometimes it becomse annoying as this “playback issue” can repeat several times in a row with some pauses.
3. Instant crashes to desktop. Rare, but happened a few times.
4. Color correction is doable but totally impractical. Numerous (no reason whatsoever) crashes when applying the color corrector filter to individual clips, modifying, slow renders and slow response. etc. etc.
5. After a while, when the project grows bigger and bigger, loading times for the project rocketed to 5 mins even 15 mins in one instance. Another note. I ussually like to keep my projects well organized so chaotic placement of media & such is out of the question.
5a. Working with the actual project also became a pain in the neck as scrubing through the timeline became really slow.
6. Long render times for color corrected clips.
7. Odd transition behavior. For instance, no matter how long I made a transition it rendered as a sudden pass from black to the incoming footage. Vewy confusing if you ask me.What went well.
1. With all issues, the final project was delivered. Downconversion to Beta SP through the BM card went smooth. No probs.
2. One of the features I like most in PPro is the ability to zoom in not only in the timeline but also in the left monitor where I load my footage.
3. Track monitoring is a bit akward as opposed to Avid but sometimes the classical “adobe eye icon” thingie proved to be more flexible.
4. Palettes have their ups and downs. Intergaface management still seems to limitated in Premiere.I will try to bring into discussion more specific issues, with more details.
Thanks
CB -
colourblind:
The issues you are mentioning seem like they might be connected to those really long clips you captured from HDcam…did you capture uncompressed?
When the project takes so long to load, are the drives accessing the whole time? Also when you’re waiting to see the clip in the source window? If so, it’s possible the drives are grunting to queue that large clip…
If you create a shorter project, does the speed issue go away?
The Black Magic guys might have some ideas on what might cause behavior like this (not that it IS the Black Magic card…just that they’ve probably seen a lot of different systems.)
The transition behavior is something I’ve not seen on any of our systems so I don’t have any immediate thoughts on that one…
TimK,
Kolb Syverson Communications,
Creative Cow Host,
2004-2005 NAB Post Production Conference
Premiere Pro Technical Chair,
Author, “The Easy Guide to Premiere Pro” http://www.focalpress.com
“Premiere Pro Fast Track DVD Series” http://www.classondemand.net -
[Tim Kolb] “The issues you are mentioning seem like they might be connected to those really long clips you captured from HDcam…did you capture uncompressed?”
Tim,
I would add that working with a 1 Beyond workstation equipped with Premiere Pro and the Bluefish card and uncompressed HD media, there was no such lag in performance. Clips were a standard length, no longer than a couple of minutes. I have also edited on an Avid DS 6.0 (pre-Nitris) on an IBM Intellistation and with all the clips loaded (uncompressed HD) to online a 1-hour show, system performance was slow. I think all these systems have some problems when huge amounts of data have to be pulled off of the drives.
Sincerely,
OliverOliver Peters
Post-Production & Interactive Media
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com
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