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Prem vs FCPX – Panels
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[Bill Davis] “There are many ways to learn that how to use them all, including the ability to do it without spending a dime more than acquisition of the program – making my product OPTIONAL. “
There are multiple NLEs people can use, including one that doesn’t cost a dime, so choosing the NLE offered by Adobe is OPTIONAL.
[Bill Davis] “Getting “locked out of your own IP because you didn’t continue paying a third party who should NEVER (in my opinion) nor in ANY way have the ability to separate you from your OWN IP” is, in my humble opinion, so far from the same as to be in a totally different universe. “
You and Adobe (along with a lot of other companies) choose to live on Planet Subscription. You may think Adobe shouldn’t live on Planet Subscription, but that’s a totally different matter.
With regards to getting “locked out of your own IP”, I assume you toss the same vitriol at people/companies that rent gear as you do at Adobe? ‘Cause really what’s fundamentally different between renting, say, a turnkey system for a month vs CC for a month? Come month number 2 it’s pay more or no more NLE for you. Should editors work for free because doing otherwise would separate the client form their own IP? Will the soundstage allow me to keep using it at no cost after my allotted time is up? Will the cold storage facility offer me unfettered access to my IP after I stop paying my monthly bill? There are a plethora of situations where a third party can “separate’ you from your own IP due to lack of payment.
Thankfully FCP 7 has an export XML function otherwise Apple would have been separating me from my own IP once I decided to stop using the NLE they killed. Oh, and I certainly need to thank Philip and Greg for making SendtoX so that Apple would no longer be separating me from my own IP when I want to transfer projects that originated in other NLEs into FCPX.
[Bill Davis] “And I don’t think it’s an accident that this serves their business interests in making it harder to leave, the longer you create work in their system. “
That statement isn’t unique to Adobe and it is also very situational. I mean, isn’t it common to call Media Composer ‘entrenched’ when talking about why it still has the place it does in the NLE world? The more time and money that goes towards a certain solution (especially at the enterprise level) the harder it is to jump ship and go a different route. Even on the individual user level it can be hard which is why people are typically reluctant to switch platforms unless they become strongly motivated. I’ve been an Apple user over 15yrs and at this point it’s certainly easier for me to switch NLEs than switch computing platforms.
With regards to different editing situations, I’ve been using PPro as my main NLE for around three years, but I could drop it from my personal edit system tomorrow and there wouldn’t really be a problem because the type of work I usually do doesn’t lend itself to creating a library of past projects that get revisited on a regular basis (I’d of course still have to use it when it’s required by my clients/employers). Once I’m done working on a project the deliverables, project files, assets, etc., all go back to the producer/director and it’s off to the next gig. Even when I work with the same people again it’s always on a new/different project
Even places I’ve worked that did recycle a lot of their previous work (ex. one place did commercials for bands on tour) would just pull from textless masters with split audio (much easier than re-constituting an old project). Most of my work with new media companies has been like that as well. Once it’s done it’s done. There are of course evergreen assets that get used over and over again, but those are certainly not tied to one specific NLE.
For people that typically deal with ongoing/open ended projects I can certainly see the lack of appeal of paying a subscription for your NLE, but not everyone is in that situation.
[Bill Davis] “And sorry, but an XML pooped out that when loaded into another NLE loses a significant part of my work and makes me start over is NOT the same as letting me go in and access my own work from where I left off without further cost. “
So how does one get 100% of one’s work out of FCPX when one needs/wants to switch to another NLE? Not everyone wants to, or is in a position to, keep a cacophony of old computers running old operating systems until the day they die so they can hop between this project in FCP 7, that project from an Avid ABVB system, that one from Vegas, that one from FCP XI, that one from Resolve 2025, etc.,. You don’t think keeping a collection like that in working order has costs associated to it? Don’t take this the wrong way, but at your age and place in life keeping a bunch of old computers around probably isn’t that big a deal. For someone that’s in their 20’s or 30’s though, telling them to hang onto computers for decades incase they may need to access an old project is an inelegant solution at best.
The right solution, IMO, is lobbying for an open, universal exchange format that all companies agree to adopt. Will it be 100% perfect? No, but it’ll be better than a closet full of old computers. I’d much rather migrate my projects (and media assets, and storage methods) forward as tech progress rather than try to hang on to relics that hopefully will keep working (especially as certain tech keeps moving more and more towards unrepairable, sealed boxes).
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[Andrew Kimery] “Apple would have been separating me from my own IP once I decided to stop using the NLE they killed.”
That’s not an accurate statement is it Andrew?
Apple didn’t kill FCP, they have a newer version that’s more advanced than the old one. You may not like that version, but plenty people do.
That’s not the same as killing FCP.
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[Tony West] “Apple didn’t kill FCP, they have a newer version that’s more advanced than the old one.”
Without any viable upgrade path for existing work from 7 to X built into the app. When X launched, FC Studio was pulled from resellers and the Apple Store. Later Apple allowed new full seats to still be sold to existing, but not new customers through their support channel. That was only after the blow-back they received, but no upgrades from earlier versions for existing FCP 1-6 customers. So it’s not cut and dried, but that pretty close to killing a product.
– Oliver
Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com -
[Oliver Peters] “but that pretty close to killing a product.
“Not at all. they still have the product out there. They have a newer version of it. That’s better than the old one.
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[Oliver Peters] “Without any viable upgrade path for existing work from 7 to X built into the app.”
Oh wow. That line is seriously getting so painfully old. Why not mention viable EDL and OMF, too? ????
That “viable upgrade path” was built into the app well below three months after release. So big friggen whoop that some people had to wait that oh-so-amazingly-long-time to upgrade to something they were convinced they didn’t need or even want to upgrade to anyway and continued with 6/7 for literally years after that either way. Yeah, unviable indeed. What an argument. ????????
[Oliver Peters] “but no upgrades from earlier versions for existing FCP 1-6 customers.”
Huhwha…?? How exactly do you define “upgrade”? By the price it costs to get to the current version? How else? Do you remember what previous Final Cut upgrades cost? I do. They (at least here) cost MORE than a full license of X and Motion and Compressor as of June 2011. How is that NOT an “upgrade”? Just because their was no price differentiation for new and previous users? But then I supposed you realize that X et al were moved to the MAS, in which case to date absolutely no one, including Apple, is given any type of “upgrade” option for newer versions of anything if they’re not mere point updates? It’s always a full purchase. So to want to portray that as some sort of unusual, Apple-only procedure is disingenuous at best.
Oh wait… what was Adobe’s “viable upgrade path” for CS1-6 users to CC again?? Oh… right. That’s totally different. My bad.
[Oliver Peters] “but that pretty close to killing a product.”
So by that logic I guess e.g. Screenflow was “killed” with version 5 since I had to purchase version 6 at full price if I bought it through the MAS? Got it. Well, then there are an amazing number of murdered apps out there. Hundreds if not thousands. Wow. And then apparently other apps such as DVD Studio Pro 2.0 “killed” v1.0 since it was, as with FCP X, merely a redesign. Odd how I’ve never heard about that.
Apple did not “kill” FCP, period. Tony described it perfectly imho.
– RK
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Deutsch? Hier gibt es ein umfassendes FCP X Training für dich! -
[Oliver Peters] “Without any viable upgrade path for existing work from 7 to X built into the app. When X launched, FC Studio was pulled from resellers and the Apple Store. Later Apple allowed new full seats to still be sold to existing, but not new customers through their support channel. That was only after the blow-back they received, but no upgrades from earlier versions for existing FCP 1-6 customers. So it’s not cut and dried, but that pretty close to killing a product.”
We’ll have to disagree on this.
Because right now, I can take ANY of my FCP 7 or prior projects. (all the way back to FCP 1.0 if I wanted to maintain a historical machine and OS System that I obviously owned when I was using it) Launch FCP Legacy on a suitable machine. And revise my work for a client.
And I expect I will be able to do that for a VERY long time.
Therefore I am NOT “cut off from my IP” in any practical sense. My IP is the intellectual effort I put into designing those edits – and it remains mine to benefit from in perpetuity. That is simply NOT the case with a lapsed subscription where you get cut off from access to the enabling program code if you elect to stop paying.
Very different thing, IMO.
My 2 cents.
Creator of XinTwo – https://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery. -
[Robin S. Kurz] “Apple did not “kill” FCP, period. Tony described it perfectly imho.”
You both believe in revisionist history. There STILL is NO viable path built inside of FCPX to transfer a sequence directly from FCP7 to FCPX. This requires 3rd party tools. Period. When X was initiatially launched, if you had 100 seats of FCP7 and needed to add 1 more, you could not do that. This policy was quickly changed because of the uproar. If you had FCP6 and wanted to upgrade to FCP7, you couldn’t buy an upgrade. You had to buy a full version of FC Studio, again. That policy was not changed.
– Oliver
Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com -
[Bill Davis] “Therefore I am NOT “cut off from my IP” in any practical sense”
I never said you were. The quote of mine that you included was related to whether or not Apple killed the product. Not related to the pros and cons of the subscription model.
– Oliver
Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com -
[Oliver Peters] “There STILL is NO viable path built inside of FCPX to transfer a sequence directly from FCP7 to FCPX.”
Yeah. The four people left that still need it actually having to pay one fourth/tenth of a single month’s CC sub?! I mean… the gall of Apple to not deliver on something now we already haven’t needed since 2013, right?
Never mind that we’re still arguing a tired, irrelevant, five+ year old topic, it’s all about principle! ☝????
???? ????
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[Oliver Peters] “You both believe in revisionist history. There STILL is NO viable path built inside of FCPX to transfer a sequence directly from FCP7 to FCPX.”
That’s a different issue.
They stopped making the version 7 of FCP.
They didn’t stop making FCP.
Just because you can’t bring in a version from 7 doesn’t mean the stop making FCP.
I worked with folks last week who are still working on 7 today. I’m helping move them to X
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