Plugins Changed My Mind

[David Mathis]

When seeing version X for the first time I was very disappointed and nearly went into shock. How could Apple do this to us? What were they thinking? As months went by and updates were made I decided to jump in. Confused at first but X started to grow on me.

Sure there are a few things that need improving and features need to be added. Overall, very impressed by where X is going.

Motion is a strong point. Quickly create a lower third from scratch, save it out for later use when it comes time to add a lower third in. Also like the fact that you can create a custom effect.

Appreciate connected clips, first they were annoying but now come in useful. Still trying to accept the new timeline but starting to get a handle on things.

For more complex stuff I find After Effects a better choice. Expressions save time and cut down on the number of keyframes needed. Find creating the graphic part in After Effects and text in Motion a good compromise for a more complex lower third. In fact the two programs compliment each other very well, in my opinion.

I guess the point I am trying to make is I finally opened my eyes, opened my mind and find that change, while difficult, is not necessarily bad.

Those are my thoughts.

[Andy Neil]

[David Mathis] “For more complex stuff I find After Effects a better choice. Expressions save time and cut down on the number of keyframes needed.”

Expressions can have a lot of flexibility, but they’re also clunky in implementation (too much like a programming language, and requiring specific numbers that don’t tell you much in context about how it will animate). Behaviors in Motion do most of the same things that expressions in AE do, and they’re ridiculously easy to use. I almost never use keyframes when animating graphics in Motion.

Andy

https://www.timesavertutorials.com

[Shawn Miller]

[Andy Neil] “Expressions can have a lot of flexibility, but they’re also clunky in implementation (too much like a programming language, and requiring specific numbers that don’t tell you much in context about how it will animate).”

Might be because AE’s expressions language is a specialized version of javascript. 🙂 Fine if you don’t want to learn programming, but I’m not sure it’s fair to call it clunky.

Shawn

[Andy Neil]

[Shawn Miller] “Fine if you don’t want to learn programming, but I’m not sure it’s fair to call it clunky.”

Having to learn programming as an editor is the very definition of “clunky” in my opinion.

Motion behaviors sacrifice some flexibility for ease of use. AE expressions sacrifice ease of use for flexibility. I think there could be some kind of middle ground and I wish Apple or Adobe would pick up the gauntlet to figure it out.

Andy

https://www.timesavertutorials.com

[Shawn Miller]

[Andy Neil] “[Shawn Miller] “Fine if you don’t want to learn programming, but I’m not sure it’s fair to call it clunky.”

Having to learn programming as an editor is the very definition of “clunky” in my opinion.”

I suppose I can understand this to a point, and maybe agree that editors don’t typically want to jump that deeply into scripting. But I also think you have to put AE in context. It’s not a tool strictly for editors, it never was. Editors may not depend on writing their own scripts… but mograph and VFX artists often do. That’s why I think it’s unfair to call this capability clunky, it’s essentially saying that anything that you don’t use in your workflow is unnecessary.

[Andy Neil] Motion behaviors sacrifice some flexibility for ease of use. AE expressions sacrifice ease of use for flexibility. I think there could be some kind of middle ground and I wish Apple or Adobe would pick up the gauntlet to figure it out.”

To be honest, I think Apple has figured this out. IMO, Motion is a great tool for editors who create motion graphics, and not a general tool for motion graphics and VFX artists. That’s not a knock on Motion, but I do think there is a reason why people who specialize in mograph and VFX, haven’t adopted Motion in the nine (or so) years that it’s been available. Again, not a knock on Motion… just an observation that mostly editors seem to use it.

Shawn

[Andy Neil]

[Shawn Miller] “That’s why I think it’s unfair to call this capability clunky, it’s essentially saying that anything that you don’t use in your workflow is unnecessary. “

I know we’re only ever going to agree to disagree here, but my opinion of the clunkiness of expressions isn’t rooted in my workflow. GUIs exist for a reason. Mograph and VFX guys may need to create specialized effects with scripting and that’s fine. But you’re telling me that AE can’t produce a basic Wiggle effect with a GUI interface like it can for all the other effects it has available?

Expressions could be designed like functions in a spreadsheet program where the interface could list them and prompt you for the parameters that need to be shown as values. Essentially make expressions easier to write so that you’re not dealing with a situation where your animation doesn’t work because you didn’t put the right number of parameter values between parentheses.

Or why not just create a GUI for expressions? Type in the expression you want to apply, and then the parameters you need to express values for show up as sliders in the effects editor where you can make adjustments in the same manner that you do for any effect that you apply.

Basically, I think expressions were created to fill a need years ago, and their implementation could be a lot better.

Andy

https://www.timesavertutorials.com

[Aindreas Gallagher]

[Andy Neil] “Expressions could be designed like functions in a spreadsheet program where the interface could list them and prompt you for the parameters that need to be shown as values. Essentially make expressions easier to write so that you’re not dealing with a situation where your animation doesn’t work because you didn’t put the right number of parameter values between parentheses.
“

there are around a million examples of what you are describing in AE – one of the most famous is ease and whizz – a really nice keyframe acceleration controller that is basically a front end for a script. you’re aware that the scripting language in AE actually has GUI and slider tools available to it?

Like shawn said – motion is a version of mograph designed for editors, as in to say, not designers – you can tell because, as shawn pointed out, in its nine years of existence, the only people who use motion are editors. designers use after effects.

I’ve been at it since around 98 and i’ve never met a single mograph guy who used motion, or worked with a single brand asset built and deployed in motion.

https://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics

[Joseph W. bourke]

I’m not by any stretch of the imagination an expressions expert, but I think that Adobe created the Pick Whip aspect of Expressions just for the purpose of making life easy on those who don’t want to “learn the language”. How much easier can it get than dragging and linking parameters to get very powerful results?

Joe Bourke
Owner/Creative Director
Bourke Media
http://www.bourkemedia.com

[Andy Neil]

[Aindreas Gallagher] “there are around a million examples of what you are describing in AE – one of the most famous is ease and whizz “

You’re describing a plug-in. That you buy. I’m talking about changing the interface for expressions within AE.

[Aindreas Gallagher] “you’re aware that the scripting language in AE actually has GUI and slider tools available to it? “

No, I’m not aware of this. As I said, I’m not a programmer, nor do I want to be one. I’ve used expressions in AE before, but I don’t have the skill set to use expressions to their fullest. The typical example of how I use expressions is adding a little wiggle shake on a camera to simulate hand-held or something like that. I’d be interested in seeing the GUI for expressions though if you can point out how to get to it.

[Aindreas Gallagher] “Like shawn said – motion is a version of mograph designed for editors, as in to say, not designers – you can tell because, as shawn pointed out, in its nine years of existence, the only people who use motion are editors. designers use after effects.”

I agree with Shawn about the design of Motion, although I don’t agree with your backwards logic about why only editors use Motion. First off, it’s not true, but there’s so little market penetration I can see why this is a prevalent attitude. The fact is, there are shops that use Motion, and facilities whose designers use Motion for gfx packages for FCPX. I’ve worked with some of them.

But why would a Mograph guy bother learning Motion for most jobs (if the program isn’t required) when they’re already comfortable with AE, and when AE can do more than Motion anyway? There’s just no incentive. I’m fine with that. I’ve got nothing against AE or those who use it. That said, I think there are certain things that Motion does better than AE: namely behaviors, particles, and replicators. But my original comments weren’t to argue one over the other. I just think the interface for expressions is clunky.

Andy

https://www.timesavertutorials.com

[Richard Herd]

[Andy Neil] ” I think there could be some kind of middle ground and I wish Apple or Adobe would pick up the gauntlet to figure it out.”

Thunderous applause and standing ovation!!