Plugins Changed My Mind

[Richard Herd]

[Andy Neil] “Or why not just create a GUI for expressions”

And that is an excellent encore performance! Even more thunderous applause and standingonmychair ovation!

I hope Adobe is listening.

[Richard Herd]

[Joseph W. Bourke] “How much easier can it get than dragging and linking parameters to get very powerful results?”

An actual GUI could be nice. Suppose you have 100 layers and you need to pickwhip four twirlies deep 100 layers up, also 4 twirlies deep. Suddenly, there’s not enough real estate to pickwhip. But a GUI … now that might be nice.

At least let the whip work the way OSX lets you drag a file to a folder and it blinks and opens and so on.

[Walter Soyka]

I’m an expressions geek. I find them invaluable, and while I agree there’s room for improvement, I think that some of your objections to them are relatively easily answered with the current implementation.

[Andy Neil] “Or why not just create a GUI for expressions? Type in the expression you want to apply, and then the parameters you need to express values for show up as sliders in the effects editor where you can make adjustments in the same manner that you do for any effect that you apply.”

There are a class of effects in Ae called “Expression Controls” which include checkboxes, color pots, point controls, angle controls, and sliders. When I write expressions, I almost always link the values to controls with the pickwhip.

For a wiggle expression, I’d add two Slider Controls to the layer, then I’d name the first wiggle_Frequency and the second wiggle_Amplitude. Then I’d add a wiggle expression to a property, but instead of using hard-coded values, I’d link them to the slider controls:

wiggle(effect("wiggle_Frequency")("Slider"),effect("wiggle_Amplitude")("Slider"))

Now I can adjust the parameters via the GUI and even keyframe them if I want to.

Finally, since I hate repeating tasks, I’d select the two slider controls and the wiggled property and save an animation preset. Then the next time I wanted to wiggle something, I could search the Effects & Preset panel for my wiggle and apply the whole thing with a double-click or a drag-and-drop. This also creates an FFX file which is portable and can be shared with other users.

[Andy Neil] “But you’re telling me that AE can’t produce a basic Wiggle effect with a GUI interface like it can for all the other effects it has available?”

Ae does actually ship with some wiggle presets. If you type “wiggle” into the Effects & Presets panel, you’ll see them. They do exactly what you’re looking for, and in almost the same manner as I describe above.

[Andy Neil] “Expressions could be designed like functions in a spreadsheet program where the interface could list them and prompt you for the parameters that need to be shown as values. Essentially make expressions easier to write so that you’re not dealing with a situation where your animation doesn’t work because you didn’t put the right number of parameter values between parentheses.”

A rudimentary version of this exists now. When you Alt-click a property to add an expression, you’ll see a triangle icon right next to the pick whip. Clicking this opens a fly-out menu with all the different functions available. Selecting one from the fly-out menu will add it to your expression and will include brief descriptions of the parameters.

[Andy Neil] “Motion behaviors sacrifice some flexibility for ease of use. AE expressions sacrifice ease of use for flexibility. I think there could be some kind of middle ground and I wish Apple or Adobe would pick up the gauntlet to figure it out.”

I would not say that Motion behaviors sacrifice some flexibility for ease of use — I’d say that Motion behaviors sacrifice enormous flexibility for excellent ease of use.

I would also say that Ae expression trades terrible ease of use for massive flexibility. Some things that should be easy (and are easy in Motion) are pretty hard in Ae unless you have a significant base of knowledge. However, a great many things that are very hard or outright impossible in Motion are doable in Ae once you learn expressions.

I think that’s a very elusive middle ground you’re speaking of. This is a difficult trade-off to manage. I think that a visual programming environment (read: nodal system) like Quartz Composer or C4D’s Xpresso is a reasonable middle ground to consider, but this only eliminates the need to know how to write in a programming language, not the need to think like a programmer.

I don’t mean to be dismissive of your objections. I agree that this is an area where Ae can be improved — but I’m also wary of any “improvements” that would limit what’s available today. I’m sincerely curious to hear your opinions on what else can be improved. I’ve been filing a stack of feature requests around expressions in Ae myself, and I’m always happy to add to that stack.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog – What I’m thinking when my workstation’s thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events

[David Mathis]

[Walter Soyka] ”
I would not say that Motion behaviors sacrifice some flexibility for ease of use — I’d say that Motion behaviors sacrifice enormous flexibility for excellent ease of use.

I would also say that Ae expression trades terrible ease of use for massive flexibility. Some things that should be easy (and are easy in Motion) are pretty hard in Ae unless you have a significant base of knowledge. However, a great many things that are very hard or outright impossible in Motion are doable in Ae once you learn expressions.”

I find expressions very valuable. Yes, they can get complicated, but once you figure it out it becomes a great tool. I find linking parameters in Motion to be time consuming. There is no way that I know of to save a parameter for later use.

Expressions can be saved in a text file, usually I go with Text Edit to do this. Just simply select the expression, copy it and then paste it into a word program. When needed, it can easily be found. Also, you can copy and paste expressions to multiple layers with ease.

I do like Motion when needing to create a lower third, effect or something else to use in FCP X, one of the great things. I do love working with Motion but it is not always suited to more complex projects.

[Shawn Miller]

[Andy Neil] “Shawn Miller] “That’s why I think it’s unfair to call this capability clunky, it’s essentially saying that anything that you don’t use in your workflow is unnecessary. ”

I know we’re only ever going to agree to disagree here, but my opinion of the clunkiness of expressions isn’t rooted in my workflow. GUIs exist for a reason. Mograph and VFX guys may need to create specialized effects with scripting and that’s fine. But you’re telling me that AE can’t produce a basic Wiggle effect with a GUI interface like it can for all the other effects it has available?”

AE does have this, it’s called the Wiggler:

https://library.creativecow.net/articles/tierney_jim/wiggler.php

But I get your point, you want expressions to be more like plugins or behaviors; drag and drop, no troubleshooting. Scripting is (or can be) messy; an improperly written function, a misplaced comma or a simple typo and your script doesn’t work. That can be frustrating, I agree. But that’s also the nature of scripting. It’s like calling an Alexa clunky because it’s not as easy to use as an FS100.

[Andy Neil] “Expressions could be designed like functions in a spreadsheet program where the interface could list them and prompt you for the parameters that need to be shown as values. Essentially make expressions easier to write so that you’re not dealing with a situation where your animation doesn’t work because you didn’t put the right number of parameter values between parentheses.

Or why not just create a GUI for expressions? Type in the expression you want to apply, and then the parameters you need to express values for show up as sliders in the effects editor where you can make adjustments in the same manner that you do for any effect that you apply.”

It sounds like you’re advocating for a text editor for expressions. I think that could be really useful… sort of like a Komodo Edit for AE. I’m not sure if that would address your core complaint though, even a text editor is only useful to someone who understands scripting.

[Andy Neil] “Basically, I think expressions were created to fill a need years ago, and their implementation could be a lot better.”

Absolutely, but I think we might have different ideas on what that implementation would look like. 🙂

Shawn

[Andy Neil]

[Shawn Miller] “It’s like calling an Alexa clunky because it’s not as easy to use as an FS100.”

Actually, to use your analogy, it would be like calling an Alexa clunky if you had to type in the F-stop on a keypad instead of just turning the iris wheel.

According to Walter’s post, it seems there are some aspects to expressions of which I wasn’t aware. I only recently got CC, I’d been stuck on CS4 before that. But Walter brings up an interesting question. How would you change it?

For me, I’m not sure. Without understanding the difficulties in scripting language, I would want a Siri-like interface where you could suggest functions and the expressions GUI would format the expressions properly, prompting you for the values you need to input or listing them as options in the effects editor. Then a person with limited scripting knowledge could pull off some pretty complex effects simply by knowing what he wanted to do.

But then, if I did understand the limitations of scripting language or GUIs, I wouldn’t need to bother because scripting expressions would make sense to me. 🙂

Andy

https://www.timesavertutorials.com

[Richard Herd]

Expression Sampler. It’s a good place to go.

https://library.creativecow.net/articles/devis_andrew/hidden-templates/video-tutorial

Regarding copying expressions: Edit | Copy Expression Only

Then paste.

[Walter Soyka]

Expressions and scripting are different things. Expressions are evaluated automatically at render-time to control the value of a specific property — much like a behavior. Scripts are specifically executed to control the application itself — much like AppleScript.

[Andy Neil] “Without understanding the difficulties in scripting language, I would want a Siri-like interface where you could suggest functions and the expressions GUI would format the expressions properly, prompting you for the values you need to input or listing them as options in the effects editor. Then a person with limited scripting knowledge could pull off some pretty complex effects simply by knowing what he wanted to do.”

I think this is called the CreativeCOW After Effects Expressions forum [link] 🙂

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog – What I’m thinking when my workstation’s thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events

[Joseph W. bourke]

And of course where but on AE Scripts would you find a script which purports to simplify Expressions, but at a cost:

https://aescripts.com/iexpressions/

They do, however, offer bundles centering on specific aspects of AE, such as Camera, Physics, Wiggles, etc.

Joe Bourke
Owner/Creative Director
Bourke Media
http://www.bourkemedia.com

[Simon Ubsdell]

[Andy Neil] “Or why not just create a GUI for expressions? Type in the expression you want to apply, and then the parameters you need to express values for show up as sliders in the effects editor where you can make adjustments in the same manner that you do for any effect that you apply.”

Actually this is pretty much exactly what Motion Behaviors are – expressions with a GUI. Wriggle is a very obvious instance of this being the case.

Simon Ubsdell
http://www.tokyo-uk.com