Please suggest capture and project settings to retain closed-caption data

[Shane Ross]

So far only ONE capture card supports the capture and output of video that retains closed captioning information, and that is the Matrox MXO2.

https://www.matrox.com/video/en/products/mxo2/features/

Downloadable PDF: https://www.matrox.com/video/media/pdf/products/mxo2/en_whats_new_MXO2_1_3_1.pdf

“You’ll no longer need to spend time and money recreating HD captioning data that is typically lost when you edit projects in
Final Cut Pro. In release 1.3.1, Matrox MXO2 offers a unique patent pending workflow to capture, playback, and preserve
closed captioning data while editing projects in Final Cut Pro. Nothing is destroyed.
The workflow is as follows:

Capture – If you have an HD-SDI video source that contains digital closed captioning data in the VANC (vertical ancillary
data space), Matrox MXO2 lets you capture the closed captioning data along with the video using MXO2’s HD-SDI input.

Edit – Matrox MXO2 will preserve your closed captioning data throughout the editing process. You can use Final Cut Pro to
trim, add effects such as color correction, and add titles or credits while maintaining your closed captioning data. With
Matrox MXO2, your original closed captioning data is not destroyed.

Output – When using Matrox MXO2’s HD SDI output for playback, you can choose to maintain and output the digital closed
captioning data that was captured using MXO2. The closed captioning data is inserted into your video’s VANC.

Even if you need to scale on capture or output, you can count on Matrox MXO2 to preserve your closed captioning data
throughout your production.”

Shane

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[Walter Biscardi]

[Mark Suszko] “Source tape is DVCpro 25 and has cc data on it which I want to retain as I bring the footage into FCP and out again. Can you reccommend the best settings to not lose the CC data. “

I’m pretty certain the AJA 6.0.3 drivers added this to the Kona series.

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Biscardi Creative Media
HD and SD Production for Broadcast and Independent Productions.

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[Shane Ross]

Nothing in the release notes indicate that. Nor the manual. It would be cool if it did it too. But I am fairly certain that the MXO2 is the only box that currently does this.

Shane

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[John Pale]

Kona 3 release notes for driver 6.03

KONA 3 / 3X Drivers Version 6.0.3, Control Panel, and Notes
(Release Date 3/9/2009, zip archive)
This release adds a new “Line 21 blanking switch” to the control panel Format tab, and a new easier-to-use KONA software and easy setup installer (easy setups are now grouped and you can decide at installation exactly which ones you want installed).

If you don’t have the Kona 3 or the Matrox, it won’t work.

[Eric Johnson]

I don’t know if this will work, seems far fetched but still plausible, if you have a Kona card (I think a 3 is the one with the Line 21 Blanking, only in most recent firmware and software) and two decks, you may be able to pass through the Kona while using the downstream keyer, This of course depends on the graphic you are using, if it’s a bug then game on.

You will have to futz with the DS keyer settings a bit, I can’t remember the right combo of settings. then plug in a monitor at the end to see if the captioning is maintained.

With the video passing through the Kona it MAY work.

Though it is a long shot. But if you have the gear, then it won’t hurt to try.

[Shane Ross]

Let me paste more of that:

“A “Line 21 blanking switch” has been added to the KONA Control Panel to enable/disable the passing of line 21 when up-converting. The new control is on the Format tab under the “Conversion” options (“Up” menu choices). This resolves an issue where the vertical blanking was too wide. (KONA 3)”

This says it is a fix to a different problem. I see nothing that says anything about preserving Closed Captioning. Does this mean, because my technical knowledge in this area isn’t that great (I am no engineer), that you can now output from the Kona and NOT overwrite the closed captioning on the tape…that exists on line 21?

To my knowledge, the MXO2 captures the CC information as well. I have no ability to test all of this, as I don’t have CC tapes or a lot of decks at my disposal, but this does bear independent testing.

Shane

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[Mark Suszko]

Shane, I’m glad for Matrox, but it doesn’t help me since I’ve got an AJA IO. Also, My old Discreet EDIT* with MADRAS transcoder used to be able to do this, we tested it and it preserved CC in and out, so maybe it’s not a sudden “new” discovery by Matrox.

Which is why I had a hope I could do it again using a much newer and supposedly superior NLE:-) But that’s off topic from the original question. What I’m getting is that the answer remains “no”. Even if I am capturing and outputting composite video?

It’s frustrating though; in overscan in my canvas I can *see” the little advancing white blocks that signify time code, so “close” to line 21, yet so far…. maybe I’ll open the sarcophagus and boot up the Edit*6 and it’s rocking motion jpeg codec for one more little job…:-)

Thanks for the quick response anyway, guess I should go home and have a Mai-tai and put it behind me until tomorrow…

[Mark Suszko]

I think I’m going to go around the problem another way, if I can’t solve it in the NLE. Since my original master and the master with the new full-screen graphic insert time out exactly the same, and the cc data is always a little laggy in terms of synching up to program anyway, I will attempt to just hand-synch an a/b roll into a new master, going direct thru the patch bay instead of a switcher that strips the synch out. One tape will have the good cc data on it, I’ll (fingers crossed) pass this output back thru our encoder setup and re-insert it into/over the video and audio that’s playing off the original master. To the encoder it hopefuly will look like our remote live-captioning typist is re-typing all the captions, onto a fresh master. Shades of The Forbin Project. I’m going to have to buy my CE a bottle of the “good stuff” to pay him off to wire up that rig though; the encoder is a nasty old beast, and only he can make it do his bidding.

[John Pale]

Shane, I think you are right.

This thread seems to indicate you can preserve the CC with the AJA in Uncompressed SD only.

https://forums.creativecow.net/thread/8/1032514

Anyhoo…it doesnt look like this will help our original poster since he does not have one.

[Walter Biscardi]

[Shane Ross] “Nothing in the release notes indicate that. Nor the manual. It would be cool if it did it too. But I am fairly certain that the MXO2 is the only box that currently does this. “

Gary Adcock noted the ability to preserve CC during capture and playback as part of the Kona 6.0.3 release back in early March, right after the drivers were released. I remember it was a pretty big deal when it came out because it was the first product for FCP to allow it.

https://forums.creativecow.net/readpost/98/873234

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Biscardi Creative Media
HD and SD Production for Broadcast and Independent Productions.

Read my Blog!

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