Please help!!! Can not find progressive preset

[Steven L. gotz]

Presets are merely suggestions. Have you tried making a custom project using the Desktop option instead of DV NTSC? As far as I know there is no progressive DV NTSC so there would be no need for a preset.

If you are using a capture from a MiniDV camera, you should edit in an interlaced project and then export as prograssive. Or, deinterlace every clip on the timeline. If you are animating from other applications and not using video, use the Desktop method.

Steven
https://www.stevengotz.com

[Tclark]

What does the Desktop Editing mode mean exactly? What does this option do exactly?

How would one go about setting up a project for a camera that shoots 29.97 progressive video?
Say for instance a Canon Camera with frame movie mode. I know that is not true progressive but it does not have fields in it. I would think that they would need a project setting of 29.97 that is progressive.
Unless I am missing something.

Thanks again for your help

[Andre De clercq]

Still confused…Progressive DV images are indeed recorded and transported as interlaced fields. So APP behaves exactly the same way as with interlaced pictures. Field order may be not important but frame recognition IMHO is needed. If not, it can happen that consecutive field pairs comming from two different frames are being proceesed and if there is motion, all processed frames will show “mouseteeth”. So, my question is: does APP with progressive footage, recognise the fields which belong to the same frame?

[Tclark]

Those are some of the things I am wondering about also. Great question!!

Hopefully the desktop editing mode will solve the problem but I am still unclear to what exatly this editing mode means by “desktop”

[Tclark]

Thanks Steven for your response.

Which video rendering compressor would you use if you chose desktop mode?
It will not give you the option of DV NTSC.

Thanks

[Steven L. gotz]

It can’t give you DV NTSC because there is no such thing as DV NTSC progressive. Pick a codec, any codec.

I believe you are making an incorrect assumption. I believe you should use a standard DV preset and edit that way. If you want to deinterlace everything, then do so. If it doesn’t need deinterlacing, then so be it. Export as progressive.

Steven
https://www.stevengotz.com

[Marcus Van bavel]

Steven tells me you are using DVFilm Maker.

If you deinterlace to 30P you can edit in a regular NTSC
(interlaced) timeline. The progressive and interlaced formats
are compatible. However any effects or transitions that you
apply will have interlacing in them, but that should not be a problem.

Here are some more details which you can skip over if you don’t need them

DVFilm Maker has several options. The simple deinterlace converts 60i to 30P
or 50i to 25P. It can also convert 60i to 24p, or take 60i and convert it to
60i with 24P plus 3:2 pulldown. It can also remove pulldown. In the case of
30P, 25P or 24P the output is true progressive.

By the way it is a misconception (not neccesarily yours) that a DV-NTSC
codec encodes the fields separately and is somehow hardwired for interlaced
material. Each macroblock can be encoded in either field mode or frame mode,
but it’s decided anew on each macroblock depending on the content of the
image and 30P is encoded equally well as 60i.

The problem is that the NLE assumes DV-NTSC is 60i because there is no
interlaced/progressive property in an AVI or Quicktime so the NLE often
makes a guess at to which it is.

You can edit 30P in a 60i timeline and there’s nothing wrong with that, it
will preserve the 30P motion. However motion effects and transitions will
have interlacing in them. That’s not a disaster as long as you’re not trying
to make a transfer to film or a 24P DVD, and in that case 30P would not be
appropriate anyway.

If you edit 24P in a 60i timeline that is very bad, especially for a
transfer to film or to make a 24P DVD. The user would need to use the
DVX100A preset instead or desktop mode with custom settings, something where
the frame rate is 23.976 and field dominance set to “None” or “Progressive”
If you are editing Dv in desktop mode you have to install a VfW DV codec
like the Matrox free DV codec, which is a good one. In desktop mode there
is no firewire preview.

https://www.matrox.com/video/support/ds/software/codec/home.cfm

Steven asks why not edit 60i and then deinterlace? The reason is that
the motion detector in DVFilm Maker is confused by cuts, and
the result is 2 frames before and after the cut that are 1/2 resolution.
Most people don’t notice it however. Also if you edit 60i and convert
to 24P, you will sometimes get 1-frame dissolves on a hard cut. Again
most people don’t notice. But the biggest drawback is that any motion
effects such as slow motion will absolutely mess up a 60i to 24 conversion,
so it’s best to do it before editing, if possible.

Finally avoid both high shutter speeds and unmotivated pans when shooting 60i
for conversion to 30P or 24P. It might look smooth at 60i but it
might not at 30P or 24P. 1/60th or 1/50th sec is OK. Following action
is OK.

[Tclark]

Thanks Marcus!

I really appreciate your time. That helps a lot.
Great explanation!!

Does this mean that anybody with a true 30p camera such as the canon xL2 should use a 60i preset when capturing 30p?

[Marcus Van bavel]

[TClark] “Does this mean that anybody with a true 30p camera such as the canon xL2 should use a 60i preset when capturing 30p?”

That’s correct

[Andre De clercq]

Thanks Markus for the interesting information. You mentioned motion detection w.r.t. crossover artifacts, but does theis mean, in relation to my earlier question, that all NLE’s (not only DV Filmmaker)have motion detection for deciding which field belongs to which frame?