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Panasonic Varicam:- It’s not that great is it?
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Hi Walter,
While it’s true that the native DVCPro HD codec looks good, it’s a very bad idea to use it if you are doing any effects or layers!Every time you color correct or add a layer of any kind you are, in effect, decompressing and recompressing each time; the result is noise and reduced picture quality. This may explain the problems you reported seeing.
In sum, if you want the best quality, load in HD SDI not Firewire. You’ll stay uncompressed for all your color grading and effects. The Firewire method is acceptable only for cuts-only shows. I believe this has been discussed in detail here previously.
Give it a try, Walter; I think you’ll be pleased.
Best regards,
LeoDirector/Cinematographer
Southeast USA -
Perhaps it is inconceivable to the powers that be that in the case of Avid vs. FCP for Varicam- the less expensive/less “pro” NLE solution is actually far more technically capable of getting the job done.
-Noah
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Hi All,
Thanks for all the responses, and so quick too. What a great forum, I just wish I had found it earlier.
We get a range of material shot on Varicam, from all over the globe. To be fair it really isn’t that compareable to film in terms of quality. The compression artifacts can clearly be seen in our daVinci suite on the original camera source tapes.
For the cost of the equipment, I guess it is good for what you are paying. But to compare the quality to HDCAM, especially the SR Cinealta, there is no comparison, but then again it is five times the price!
The variable framerate is a nice feature, but the Tornado camera has that feature, and has a much higher resolution, but again is priced alot more. Sony are also developing a variable frame rate for the CineAlta camera.
Interms of Offline disappearing, I am not too sure. I don’t have any clients that are willing to pay $800 per hour to choose shots and make an EDL.
Making dubs for variable framerate stuff is a crazy solution. What if you have 80 tapes, like I did on a recent project?
In all I think the system is fine for ‘low-end’ HD, but for major stuff, it doesn’t work.
Believe me we have tried.
And Rob, I remember all the hassles had with a movie (Forget About it) in Arizona, it was an absolute nightmare. For a movie you need to offline, and there was no way to do it short of making dubs.
All I want is for Panasonic to add a SD output that can handle variable framerate, so offlines are achieveable. And as for serious color correct, to add a correct VITC record, like any other VTR.
To me it is almost there, but not quite. But it has been this way for almost six years.
Just my 2 cents.
All the best,
Shane
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The problem is, the flags for variable frames are only on the HD output and not the SD. The firewire does output the flags, but you suffer interms of quality, and you then don’t have a Timecode reference to get a proper list.
We have Automatic Duck here, and it doesn’t help with the simple Offline to Online problem.
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I live in Seattle and I am one of “those people” who have made the investment ($100.000) in a Varicam. I really don’t see what the problem is. All you need to do is frame rate convert in FCP using a 1200a via firewire, then record out to the 1200a. You can downconvert the “converted” footage to SD for an Avid cut and use the same timecode when you online.
I seriously hope you are not telling people to avoid Varicam. It’s a great format and has been very popular with in Seattle and more cameras are being added to local rental facilities. The format is here to stay and it would be great if everyone could find the path of least resistance so we can all continue to make a living.
Christopher Bell
Cinematographer / Panasonic Varicam HD Owner-Operator -
Yes, Shane that project was a nighmare for a number of reasons. If you recall the eQ was not exactly a stable platform at that time. However I seem to recall that the eQ had no troulble with DVCPROHD as a format. Am I correct that you are saying the the way the camera records timecode prevents the Avid from making a correct EDL?
As for the picture quality I truly think it is in the eye of the beholder. Recently I went through testing comparing the Varicam against the F900 for a large budget pilot. The Director and Producer chose the look of the Varicam over the F900. The Director actually said about the Varicam “Oh, I can see things outside the widows.” In the end the Executive producer had an editorial deal with Sony Pictures and we were forced to change out the entire 2 camera package a day before shooting. My point is that post efficiency is king in the production equation. You are recommending your clients to not use a format because it doesn’t fit your efficiency paradign. What are you going to do when your clients bring in green screen HDV material? I’m betting you will find a way and bill them for the results.
Rob Bullard
varicam@mac.com
401-447-0291 -
Hi Rob,
The eQ has never had a problem with Varicam, as it was the first system to support it. I was the person that done the betatesting. The problem in Arizona was that the Avid could not read the flags for variable framerate, as it only records via SDi, and the 1200 deck cannot do an insert edit at all. The only deck that can do an insert edit is the 1700 (or the old 150) but it doesn’t have a firewire output.
If you look at all the movies being done in HD, how come none of the major studio use the format? I mean ILM (StarWars), Warners, Troublemaker(Sincity and Spy Kids)etc. all tried all the cameras, and all chose the F900 and F950’s. I really couldn’t name a major studio that shoots in Panasonic Varicam.
Of course, we take on any jobs here. That’s why we have all the VTR’s and formats. It is just that when ever we do Varicam jobs (that have used the variable framerate function) there are compromises that have to be made.
We HDV here too (including cameras) and that really is HD compressed to within an inch of its life!
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[shane dillon] “If you look at all the movies being done in HD, how come none of the major studio use the format? I mean ILM (StarWars), Warners, Troublemaker(Sincity and Spy Kids)etc. all tried all the cameras, and all chose the F900 and F950’s. I really couldn’t name a major studio that shoots in Panasonic Varicam.”
I think the Varicam is really a “film for TV” type of format which gives you the look and feel of film for a much lower price point than shooting HDCAM. From all that I read, it’s the video world that is really going to the Varicam, not the film world.
Of course, we did shoot our indie film with the Varicam and 6 Canon Prime lenses and it did look gorgeous.
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Creative Genius, Biscardi Creative Media
https://www.biscardicreative.comNow in Production, “The Rough Cut,” https://www.theroughcutmovie.com
“I reject your reality and substitute my own!” – Adam Savage, Mythbusters
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The reason why Hollywood uses the Sony system is because Sony had the power to create the 1920X1280 24fps standard and then saturate the market with product. If Sony invented a 1080p/60fps system Hollywood would be using it. Wow a Sony Varicam!
In the recent testing that I did for a 15 million $ feature we shot 8 different formats (including HDV and Super 16) and the Varicam was chosen by the director. We did nothing to the camera other than set it to film rec and output to Arrilaser. They are shooting it on 35mm.
Rob Bullard
varicam@mac.com
401-447-0291 -
[shane dillon] ” The problem in Arizona was that the Avid could not read the flags for variable framerate, as it only records via SDi, “
Actually Shane that is an issue with Avid all together, as the Avid systems only see 23.98, 24, 29.97, 30p, and 59.94 frame rates from the Varicam (I believe that 60p is not supported) due to Avid not wanting the hassle of creating a FRC like Apple has done for FCP.
On a second note: Boards like the Kona 2 can function as an FRC when capturing via SDI. I have successfully captured frame rates as low as 4 fps direct to my K2 system with master TC embedded in the file — which cannot be done when using software FRC from Apple – it strips out all TC reference when it converts the frame rates.
gary adcock
Studio37
HD and Film Consultation
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