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Panasonic Varicam:- It’s not that great is it?
Hi,
I am new to this forum, but from searching the web, this is the only site where Varicam has been spoken of with people that have used it.
I first used Panasonics Varicam almost six years ago when Betatesting it for Quantel. Back then there were several problems I pointed out that still have yet to be addressed.
Now living in Seattle, several small companies have bought into the format and some of the higher end work is coming into the larger facilities.
I work for one of those large facilities, where as well as Panasonic Varicam, we have HDCam, HDCam SR, a DaVinci, Quantel eQ’s, Avid Nitris, Final Cut, and a bunch of other stuff.
We have had a few issues with Varicam as of late, and have thought long and hard, and now advise clients NOT to shoot on it. Because of this Panasonic sent a sales rep, their engineer, and sent up a conference call with some of the powers that be in Panasonic.
Anyway, the main problems are:
1. If you actually shoot Variable frame rate, it is impossible to do an offline and get a decent EDL list. Quantel reads the variable framerate flags, but AVID and Final Cut cannot take a SD feed and read the flags. As Panasonics states:- The flags are only on HD-SDI output, so you have to edit in HD. The solution they gave us was to either use the Quantel system (or a Variable Frame Rate Convertor) and then lay back to HDCAM, then use that as your master!!
So now the client has to pay for a dub, and lose a generation in quality.
They said there are no plans to do an SD variable output ( ie. 24 frame then add Pulldown for NTSC, or play frame for frame for PAL).
2. If you are using the AJ 1200 deck, the only way you can do a recording, other than crash record is to use the Firewire option, however this cannot record VITC. Without VITC, no decent color corrector can work with the tapes. The AJ 1700 does not have the Firewire option at all, and never will. Panasonics answer for us was to Dub all the tapes that were recorded using Firewire to get VITC. But have you seen the compression artifacts of one generation, it is shocking!
All in all I was really disappointed by Panasonics response.
I have had alot of experience with the format, but still shudder whenever a client calls and says they have something shot on Varicam.
My advice, stick to HDCAM, you will save money in the end and it will look better. The new CineAlta SR stuff looks amazing.
Leo, I remember you name from the old Henry days. Perhaps you could shed some light on what sort of experiences you have had. So far our clients have been really disappointed with the quality, especially as they have been using HDCAM and film previously. But my real beef is with the Offline to Online problem.
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33 Replies
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Wow those are valid concerns. But for the small to mid size producer it is still an amazing system. Recently I shot for a client, captured to firewire and he editied on his lap top. Is that what really concerns you?
Rob Bullard
varicam@mac.com
401-447-0291 -
My problem is getting the project from the laptop to Online.
I think I met you in Arizona, and we had exactly the same problems there. You couldn’t get a list from the Avid to the eQ.
It only works if you stay in from start to finish on one machine, which really is not possible with big projects that need many tools.
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If a tape is truly recorded in variable frame rates, the flags must be recognized by Final Cut Pro via Firewire because it will automatically capture at whatever frame rate was used if you have the option to automatically capture only actual frames and ignore duplicate frames. I’ve done this several times in FCP where I’ll just leave it set to 720/60 on Firewire and any 24p shots are automatically captured at 23.98.
As for quality, yes, HDCAM is certainly cleaner and sharper than DVCPro HD, at least as far as i’ve seen in my experience. Especialy with solid areas like walls and such.
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Creative Genius, Biscardi Creative Media
https://www.biscardicreative.comNow in Production, “The Rough Cut,” https://www.theroughcutmovie.com
“I reject your reality and substitute my own!” – Adam Savage, Mythbusters
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Golly, Shane,
I couldn’t disagree with you more.Specifically:
1. Variable Frame Rate: It’s prudent to lay off your variable frame rate material. By the way, this is absolutely no different than what’s done in a film to tape transfer where we frequently lay off the footage at various playback rates. Any quality loss is imperceptible. If you don’t use the proper work flow, the fault is yours, not the system’s.
2.The 1200 deck is not an editing deck. If you want to master to DVCPro HD, buy a 1700 or a 150 or lay off to D5. I really don’t understand your reasoning; your facility obviously has the resources to buy the correct equipment. I’d like to have a Porsche Cayman at Mazda Miata prices, but I don’t think anyone is offering that deal and, if they did, they wouldn’t be long in business.
3. You prefer the look of material shot with HDCAM. Fine. That’s why they have so many flavors at the ice cream store. I believe you’re mistaken, but you’re certainly entitled to your beliefs. Both VariCam and CineAlta are capable of making pretty pictures but only the VariCam is a direct replacement for film because of the variable frame rate capability. Perhaps that’s not important to you, but I under and over crank frequently. Many, myself included, think the VariCam does a better job with color. By the way, I hear VariCam is outselling CineAlta ten to one. With the camera body being only one part of the considerable cost of an HD system, I think there’s a lot more going on than price alone.
4. Since you are still using Quantel, I can only assume that you have some sort of masochistic death-wish. Bless your heart, as they say around these parts. For commercials and most jobs shorter than features, I believe off-line is dying if not already dead, just as it should be. Storage is cheap, cheap, cheap and today’s editing and effects systems are fast. Why confound things with off-line at all? I haven’t done a conform in years. Good riddance.
I’m sure the HDCAM SR is a good system; does it not require an off-board deck to record? Perhaps dandy in the green screen studio, but not very practical in the field.
I’ve been using VariCam since it was first released and my clients have been delighted with it. If you do “shudder whenever a client calls and says they have something shot on Varicam,” send them to me, I’ll be happy to help them!
Good to hear from you, Shane, and welcome to the VariCam forum. Perhaps you will have more positive experiences with VariCam in the future.
Best regards,
LeoDirector/Cinematographer
Southeast USA -
Have you tried HD SDI capture, Walter? We do not use Firewire capture, only HD SDI, and the flags are recognized by our FCP systems.
I’ve not seen any VariCam footage that I would consider less clean than HDCAM footage. Both VariCam and CineAlta offer a very extreme range of “sharpness” settings, such as horizontal and vertical detail, so it’s difficult to say one is sharper than the other. The preferences of the cinematographers may be the key difference.
Best regards,
LeoDirector/Cinematographer
Southeast USA -
We have Final Cut here too. However if you are dealing with 24 or 60, then it is fine. I am talking about the true variable framerate, ie anything from 4fps to 60fps. Final Cut actually renders new clips when they are odd framerates, and these new clips don’t hold the correct timecode and reel names, so an EDL from that is pretty much useless. You have to finish the job on FCP really.
As Panasonic told us, there really is no solution when using variable framerates when offlining in SD. All editing would have to be done in HD, or you have to do a dub, then use those as masters.
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Yes, you’ve got it exactly right, Shane, you need to lay off your variable frame-rate material to a separate master if you wish to off-line.
I’m sure that off-line is important for many, such as a director’s cut on a laptop, for example. I just believe that making a variable frame-rate master is a small price to pay for having an HD camera that’s a direct replacement for a film camera.
Best regards,
LeoDirector/Cinematographer
Southeast USA -
[Leo Ticheli] “Have you tried HD SDI capture, Walter? We do not use Firewire capture, only HD SDI, and the flags are recognized by our FCP systems.”
Why would I do that? I already said that FCP recognizes the variable frame rate with Firewire Capture.
We’ve done tests here comparing HD-SDI and Firewire Capture and find the footage to be indentical in capture, even up against an AVID DS/HD system. So we save all the storage space and capture Firewire.
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Creative Genius, Biscardi Creative Media
https://www.biscardicreative.comNow in Production, “The Rough Cut,” https://www.theroughcutmovie.com
“I reject your reality and substitute my own!” – Adam Savage, Mythbusters
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When are people going to realize that the word Avid always comes up when it comes to problems using DVCPROHD. I was just involved in a feature project where the editor was using an Avid express machine so all the Varicam footage was downconverted to DV for that system. Stupid. All the “issues” have to do with Avid. Automatic Duck anyone?
Rob Bullard
varicam@mac.com
401-447-0291 -
[Rob Bullard] “Automatic Duck anyone?”
The Duck is awesome! Using it right now to conform a show that’s cut for SD on the AVID Adrenaline and HD on my FCP / Kona 2 system.
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Creative Genius, Biscardi Creative Media
https://www.biscardicreative.comNow in Production, “The Rough Cut,” https://www.theroughcutmovie.com
“I reject your reality and substitute my own!” – Adam Savage, Mythbusters
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