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Panasonic HDX Workflow from Camera to Deck to Final Cut
I work for a small documentary film production company. Our editors have been having a few difficulties in integrating our Pansonic HDX 900 camera and 1400 deck, with our Final Cut Studio system running on Mac towers with AJA Kona Cards. Most of the issues appear to be optimizing the best workflow methods. I’ve done some research on The Happy Cow, and while it is very helpful, I have not been able to find an overall solution to optimizing the workflow with this equipment.
Generally, our productions are for broadcast on television, such as PBS stations, or for distribution on DVDs. However, we also enter the productions in many film festivals mostly in the U.S. Our films are usually documentaries about health related topics, using interviews with experts and lots of B-roll footage.
Based on these factors, below are some of the questions we are dealing with in setting up the equipment properly. Any feedback that you or some of your knowledgeable experts at Creative Cow could provide would be very helpful in getting our workflow properly set up.
1. It seems we will be better off with a frame rate of 30p than 24p, since most of our use is for broadcast TV and DVD distribution. I also suspect that we are alright with a 30p master for film festivals, as they often have flexibility on the type of master they require (am I right about this?). The only problem then is in the (relatively) unlikely event a production is picked up for major theatrical distribution, and we need to make a 24p master. I understand it is much harder to go from 24p to 30p (adding frames), than from 30p to 24p (taking away frames). Considering most of production is for television and DVD are we probably better off using 30p? And what if a lot of our footage was already originated in 24p?
2. What is the ideal format, 1080 or 720, for the Panasonic HDX 900 camera? I understand that the chip is 720 lines of resolution, and the camera blows it up to 1080 for recording onto tape. If that is so, it seems there is no advantage to recording in 1080, since this just a 720 image from the chip that has been converted. It seems we would save a lot of storage space by keeping the recording in 720, working with it in 720, and only blowing it up to 1080 at the end if we need it for a final master. With the HDX camera, does recording in 1080 offer any additional vertical or horizontal resolution than recording in 720, or is it just an up-rez of the 720 image?
3. What are the other best settings for the HDX 900 camera? There is the issue of 720 versus 1080, as mentioned. But for each setting, 720 or 1080, is it better to use the 60i setting or 30p setting? Am I right to think that in general 30p is almost always better than 60i (because progressive is almost always better than interlace)?
4. Is 24p with advanced pulldown always better than the standard 24p? I would think so, because the 2:3:3:2 pulldown removes the middle mixed-frame, reduces the rendering, and improves the image. But what settings do we have to make to have the extraneous frame removed upon importing into the Final Cut timeline?
5. Once these questions are settled, what are the basic settings for the Panasonic 1400 deck, and how do we make them? This seems to a quite complex deck with many options, and would appreciate any information you have on how to make the proper settings on it.
6. Are we better off importing from the 1400 deck into Final Cut Studio through Firewire or through HD-SDI and the AJA Kona Card? The second option appears worse because you are up-rezzing from native DVC Pro 100 to HD-SDI and then down-rezzing through the Kona Card back to DVC Pro on the timeline. Why convert the data, if you can import it directly without conversion through firewire?
7. The only virtue that I see for using HD-SDI via Kona Card to import is that you can transcode better to Apple Pro Res 422. But if we are only planning to do some basic color correction (in Color, for example), is it worth uprezing our original DVCPro HD data to the Apple Pro Res Codec? We lose a lot of space going from 100 mb/sec to 220 mb/sec just to have 10 bit color correction instead of 8 bit. Is this worth the extra space and the transcoding? I think we’re better off saving the space and keeping the native DVCPro 100 codec on the timeline. Any thoughts about this?
7. What is the best setting for the Final Cut Studio timeline. Should we keep everything in its native codec? Most of our materials are DV and DVCPro HD. What setting should the editor make in Final Cut Studio to optimize the importing of footage and using it on the timeline?
I know that these are common workflow issues that are dealt with by many individuals who using the Panasonic 900 cameras and 1400 decks with Final Cut Studio. Any overall workflow solutions/information you could provide would be most helpful. Thanks!
– David
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2 Replies
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[David Slater] “. It seems we will be better off with a frame rate of 30p than 24p, since most of our use is for broadcast TV and DVD distribution.”
While that maybe fine for TV, 24p on a DVD or web video means better compression or longer content- on the web it means less to DL. DVD players have been able to insert pulldown for a very long time now.
[David Slater] ” What is the ideal format, 1080 or 720,”
Been asked so many times it is annoying- we cannot tell you what is better for your production. However it is always easier to go from progressive to interlace in realtime than the other way.[David Slater] “Is 24p with advanced pulldown always better than the standard 24p?”
IF you are removing pulldown on capture via FW 24pA works better, 24p matches better when mixed with existing footage containing pulldown,[David Slater] “The only virtue that I see for using HD-SDI via Kona Card to import is that you can transcode better to Apple Pro Res 422”
Then you have not properly used the card.- the Kona cards have the ability to remove dupe frames on capture from tape, and they can also handle the variable frame rates capabilities from the other panasonic tape cameras. The also offer you the ability to see what you are doing ( not possible over FW) and capabilities to layoff to other formats including realtime down conversions with pulldown added on the fly. Click on the IoHD link at the bottom of my sig file to see how the Kona cards / IoHD can be used for Panasonic’s flagged frames.[David Slater] ” think we’re better off saving the space and keeping the native DVCPro 100 codec on the timeline. “
A large number of people user DVCProHD all the time. remember that DVCPROHD was custom designed to be a great camera codec NOT an OK editing codec, even though we use it for that.
8bit vs 10bit is an issue that you may not understand the need for right now, but at some point the need for the extra bits might be needed- just keep that in mind.A large number of you questions can only be answered by the production you are on. We cannot tell you what to shoot.
gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows
Inside look at the IoHD -
Thank you for your prompt response. I’ve read a lot of your posts at Creative Cow and find them very helpful and well informed. Ironically, I attended an Apple Final Cut seminar at B&H in NYC, and the guy mentioned you as an expert on codecs, transcoding, Kona cards, etc.
On the 24 fps v. 30 fps issue, thank you for pointing out that 24 fps is probably better for web delivery and DVD since it allows for either better compression or longer run times. Still, it’s a hard decision when the most important masters will be deliverables for television broadcast. If only there were a clear winner…
As for the issue of 1080 versus 720, I didn’t mean to revive old debates on the different formats. I was just curious which would be better from a workflow format for the HDX 900. I just read in the HDX 900 camera manual that the chip only has 1280(h) x 720(v) effective pixels. I think this means that I don’t gain anything by recording to 1080 in the camera, since this is just blowing up or interpolating pixels to get the larger recorded image. So, I’m thinking I’m better off saving the memory and staying in a 720p workflow. I can always output to 1080i if it is needed for a master.
I’ve got to get my head around the Kono cards, their software, and how they work with HD-SDI. It seems that is the better way to go than Firewire, especially if, as you say, it permits removal of duplicate frames on ingest, which Firewire does not allow. I’ve got to study that a bit more. I guess that outweights the issue of transcoding the pure DVCPro HD Data to HD-SDI, and then transcoding back to DVCPro or Apple Pro Res on ingest. On the other hand, you are saying that if I want use 24pA (advanced pulldown), I am better off going through Firewire, because that removes the 24pA better than HD-SDI/Kona Card. It all seems kind of confusing.
You also seem to really prefer ingesting the DVCPro HD into ProRes rather than keeping it in the native format. It seems like a lot of extra memory to use up for the more robust and memory-hungry ProRes codec. You seem to be saying that it is easier to work with ProRes than native DVCPro HD on the Final Cut timeline.
Sometimes, I wish there was just one magical end-to-end solution that works for most of our productions. Maybe just a pipedream…
Thanks again.
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