Panasonic AJ-HPC2000 P2 vs Sony XDCAM HD

[Steve Eisen]

Sony XDCAM HD uses long GOP MPEG 2 just like HDV. It has 3 different compression settings (can you say artifacts?). Call it a Professional version of HDV.

My vote is for the Panasonic! DV 25, DVCPro, DVCPro50 and DVCPro HD (Many Flavors) all in one package.

Steve Eisen
Eisen Video Productions
Director-At-Large
Chicago Final Cut Pro Users Group

[Walter Graff]

Let’s not spread any rumors without fact. Have you seen XDCAM in action. To speak authentically would mean yo have used it and know it artifacts, etc. If not then all you are doing is creating rumor.

Walter Graff
BlueSky, LLC
https://www.bluesky-web.com

[Brian Mills]

Notice Jan did not confirm or deny 24P/30P on the HPC2000. I guess we’ll have to wait for NAB. But, as I stated when I started this post, I am waiting to see which HD camera will provide the best feature set for what I call “mid level HD” (between HDV and Varicam – where I think A LOT of us independent professioanls really fall). Jan, if you’re reading and can let us know about the progressive frames (or lack thereof) on the HPC2000, that would be super 🙂

[Ron Shook]

Walter,

[Walter Graff] “To speak authentically would mean yo have used it and know it artifacts, etc. If not then all you are doing is creating rumor.”

Ain’t it the truth. I talked recently with someone who’s done extensive testing with the 350, comparing it to 900 footage and to their in-house Varicam. I probably shouldn’t say any more at this time other than that extra 10Mbps seems to be magic.

Ron Shook

[Walter Graff]

Ron, I find two types of people on the web for the most part. I’d say the first group consists of 95% of the whole. This group reads what everyone posts on the web and simply believes it. They never have actually tested many of the cameras, etc that are discussed. In fact they never actually saw it in person for the most part. Maybe they actually did see it on display at a place like BH, or some manufactured sponsored seminar that passed through town, or simply saw it on some manufactures website, but outside of that have no real experience with it.

The problem with this group is the posts they read and believe are by the folks in their very group. So it’s a catch 22, because you have folks with no experience using a piece of a equipment who write about all sorts of problems with the equipment, and others who never used the equipment reading it, and repeating what they heard as if it was true.

The second group of people consists of the remaining 5%. These folks have had real experience with the equipment. Either having purchased it and use it, rented it for a project and used it, or got there hands on it to test it extensively (more than looking and touching it in BH Photo).

As a person that falls into the second group, I’m getting tired of the rhetoric from the first. I test everything and most every time can not repeat all the internet rumor I read such as one format having audio so bad as to be unusable or another having so many artifacts as to look like a fireworks display. From now on, I will always ask anyone that speaks of some problem, feature, or advantage of a format, camera, piece of equipment, etc, on any of these websites exactly what experience they have in making such a comment. It may mean there are a lot less folks posting out of fear of being called out, but it will mean that fantasies and dreams will be left to sleeping and those that wish to discuss the merits, or disadvantages of the slew of equipment out there can have meaningful conversations without neophyte’s hearsay or rumor.

Walter Graff
BlueSky Media, Inc.
walter@bluesky-web.com
http://www.bluesky-web.com
Offices in NYC and Amherst Mass.

[Ron Lindeboom]

Hi Walter,

I cannot speak for any other site on the internet but as for Creative Cow, we know the numbers and while I would agree with you that from what I have seen, you are probably right in your calculations when pertaining to many sites — but the Cow is quite unlike these numbers and in applying that yardstick you would be wrong.

In our latest compilation of the stats, our numbers are as follows:

(note: keep in mind that we allow users to selct more than one category as the majority of our members do more than one category of work in their profession)

post production – 44.2%
motion graphics – 36.4%
corporate video – 27.0%
indie film – 24.1%
major film- 4.8%
broadcast tv – 17.5%
event video – 23.8%
live events – 14.4%
Religion – 8.7%
Ad Agency PR – 10.6%
Retailer VAR – 2.5%
Mfr Publisher – 3.5%
Government – 5.1%
educator – 13.6%
student – 7.7%
hobbyist – 11.3%

These numbers fall right in line with the University of Colorado at Colorado Springs School of Business report that was done in late 2003 in which two PhD prfessors used the Cow as a test model for a scholastic journal and found that the Cow was over 80% working professionals. From calculating all of those who have signed up for the Creative Cow Magazine, it looks like that number still holds true today.

I have a hard time believing that only 5% of the people here know what is going on and the rest are just blowing hot air. I may not agree with everyone and my own methods may differ from theirs, but in the end I see and recognize far more than 5% here at the Cow who tend to know their stuff.

The problem often comes in when the boards proliferate with questions more than answers; this, as it is the nature of forums to get today’s problems or questions tossed up onto them for consideration. Often, many working pros do just that, work — finding little time for chat. It’s the nature of the community here.

Best regards,

Ron Lindeboom
creativecow.net

[Walter Graff]

Thanks Ron for the numbers. While I don’t doubt the numbers, nor the quality of the folks at Creative Cow, the internet has become an easy place to join the herd mentality as a whole. In fact I think Creative Cow has far more integrity than a lot of sites from my readings here. I was speaking on the web as a whole in my post, and not any particular site, person, or group.

Of course I’d rather ask questions on a board called HD1 users than a site called HDV if I was asking questions or discussing the XL HD1. With the first I usually find real users and with the second I find those who troll the web and have less real world experience with a topic yet speak from authority on a subject. Worse, are the folks who post biased information to push their favorite camera or manufacture. There are a few of these folks around the web and the sad part is that even though they have little real-wolrd experience and it’s is clear from their presentation that they are completely biased (presenting doctored or deliberately poor photos and information for ‘comparison’) folks somehow believe their rhetoric and then the cycle of bad information is spread.

Just thought it time that we took responsibility for what we say as a group and wanted to start a new way of being authentic on the web. I try to be authentic (not perfect though) and feel that if I am going to indulge in a conversation on a topic, I would appreciate it more if the person who makes a judgment call has or speaks as if from experience, has experience enough to make the judgment. Not that those who do not should not be able to ask questions or add to a conversation, but I object to speaking inauthenticity and it seems we have an epidemic on the web (not necessarily Creative Cow). That only confuses and cloud issues. So just asking folks to keep it in mind here and other places so that our threads can maintain integrity and valuable signal can rise above the noise.

Walter Graff
BlueSky Media, Inc.
walter@bluesky-web.com
http://www.bluesky-web.com
Offices in NYC and Amherst Mass.

[Jan Crittenden livingston]

Hi Brian,

Sorry for taking so long, but since this is not my product I thought I would take the time to research a little before answering.

>Will the AJ-HPC2000 shoot variable frame rates?

At this time the camera is switchable between 1080i and 720P, 60i/60P. It does not look like there is 24P or variable frame rates on its product plan at this time.

>Is it just me or does this camera (the AJ-HPC2000) sound like its going to cannibalize the Varicam?

Not at all.

Best,

Jan

[Walter Graff]

As for the AJ-HPC2000 P2 vs Sony XDCAM HD, I would love to see how the 2000 performs to make a value judgment. I have used the XDCAM cameras and have noting but praise for them. I have also used Panasonic’s first professional P2 cameras (SPX800) and loves the picture quality. I recently got a use the Sony300 and talked extensively to Sony techs about the guts.

I think specs are important but specs are only part of the equation and many times not always the most important part. I equate it to comparing a 350 horsepower dodge to a 454 Chevy. While specs tell us what’s under the hood, it will be the driver that determines which one makes it over the finish line in a drag race, not necessarily the larger engine. Humans are comparative animals by nature. It is how our mind works and sometimes it confuses us more than helps us. It is often confusing because we often think bigger numbers means better just as many think 1080i means better than 720p.

Walter Graff
BlueSky Media, Inc.
walter@bluesky-web.com
http://www.bluesky-web.com
Offices in NYC and Amherst Mass.

[Walter Graff]

That seems to make sense to me. I would imagine this camera is designed for broadcast television stations and independents, and if so, 24p does not add any value to it. Would that be correct? From my persective, very few people actually need 24p and even less variable frame rates I have a Varicam and have used VFR’s less than the fingers on one hand. The biggest part of the market is has always been TV stations and independents

The HVX seems to be a good option for both 24p and variable frame work in the 1/3 inch size for those that need it in the Panasonic flavor.

Since all thus HD stuff is in its infancy, you’ll have to wait a few years while manufactures figure it all out themselves to see what works, what does not, and what folks want. RIght now what we have out there in many offerings may even disappear in few years for even better ways of doing things.

Walter Graff
BlueSky Media, Inc.
walter@bluesky-web.com
http://www.bluesky-web.com
Offices in NYC and Amherst Mass.