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P2 Media Cards vs FIRESTORE 3 hour Value price test.
I read a post from Barry Green ( Refer to bottom of page ) and it got me thinking. If FireStore 3 hours of video seems limited what would it cost to do the same with P2 media cards. So I did some figures based on the current P2 prices for fun to see what it would cost to have three hours of P2 media. Again this was done for fun….. But it’s interesting though!
These are approximate figures:
Mission to obtain 3 hours as Firestore would for around $800 dollars.
P2 Media 4gig $1,700 dollarsDVCPRO HD/24P – 13min per P2-4gig card x 5 cards = 65 minutes of HD / 5 P2 cards x 3 = 15 P2 cards x $1,700 = $25,500 dollars
For 3 hours 15 minutes of 24P DVCpro HDFor those that do 60P productions for the live feel. Or the 60i feel.
DVCPRO HD/60P- 4min per P2-4gig x 15 = 60min minutes of HD / 15 P2 cards x 3 = 45 P2 cards x $1,700 = $76,500 dollars
For 3 hours of 60P DVCPRO HDMichael Pappas
https://www.Pbase.com/ARRFILMSSource–
BARRY GREEN WROTE:<
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24 Replies
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The only problem with this Michael is that the Firestore cannot capture DVCPRO HD.
Best,
Jan
Jan M. Crittenden
Product Manager, DVCPRO, DVCPRO50, AG-DVX100
Panasonic Broadcast & TV Systems -
Wrong, Jan, the only problem is people can’t get their thinking out of the square. You DON’T need 3 or 5 or 100 hours on P2. It’s like saying that you need 1TB of memory (RAM, not HDD) for your PC because running all your software you have installed will need that much. All you need is enough to be able not to swap/empty cards every other scene you shoot. Remember, this is the worse situation sizewise, things can only improve.
Best,
Gabriel Costache
Sales Engineer
Panasonic NZ Ltd -
Hello Gabriel Costache!
Every professional photographer I know had just a few CF cards because of the cost a few years ago, now they have a pocket full. There dirt cheap, no reason not to. Compared to over three years ago when I got my first DSLR when I only had two CF cards. Today I own 7 512mb and 3 1 gigs only because they got cheap.
The reason people are not going to have a lot of P2 cards isn’t because they don’t need them, it’s because it will cost to much to have a lot of them.
Now if P2 4gigs were $100 dollars just for example, people would own 10 to 15 of them easily. I would buy 20 of them at that price. Who wouldn’t.
So not having a lot of P2 media is not because there is not a need, it’s because they can’t, do to the high price of P2 media as of now.
I will tell you when these 4 gigs are dirt cheap, and they will be one day as all memory does, people will have a pocket full of P2 cards.
So one day years from now when Jan tells someone “” why not buy a bunch of P2 cards because there cheap” ” I will have to remind her that she professed that no one needs a lot of them because you must re-think your work flow.
I’ll make a bet that the Panasonic production philosophy of you don’t need a lot of P2 is convenient to back up its high price issue. When P2 cards are dirt cheap, that part of the work flow philosophy will suddenly disappear from the Panasonic mantra, and all of a sudden they will sing the song ” P2 cards are cheap so buy many” a 180 from the song going on now.
Which means they really don’t believe their own argument, but they just the make themselves believe in it right now to fit the situation. Blue pill or Red anyone.
What’s funny is, the short record times can work for me, but I’m a very niche sector and I know it. I don’t think others should except it just cause I can at this point.
I know two people that came back from India, 80+ hours in two weeks of filming in Digibeta from Delhi to the tip of Trivandrum. I can site another dozen off the top of my head like this that P2 is not going to work at this current stage if they couldn’t have at-least a pocket full. Rethinking your work flow is marketing/PR BS.
I like Jan, I think it’s great she comes here, but I have been working production since I was Fifteen, that’s been 21 years. So I happen to know a little about this industry. She is product manager. My friends at Panavision never try to tell me my needs or how things should work on a set. But when it comes to their gear I listen 110%. There is a line to respect and I respect that line.
People including Jan keep saying filmmakers are used to 4 minute loads. That’s such bull%*$#
Everyone I know hate’s the limited magazine loads, but it’s physics. You can only jam so much film in a mag. Panavision has spent a ton on R&D over the years to build larger mag load canisters, but it’s a matter of physics in the end and not because people like have short run times. Reloading sucks.
The one thing everyone loves in Hollywood about HD is the large record times even if they hate HD imagery, it’s always “” I like the long record times and quick and easy change out “.
Panasonic/Jan uses a film mag issue that people have no choice but to live with in film industry to justify another bad issue of limited P2 Media size. This is and never would be a plus….
Michael Pappas
https://www.Pbase.com/ARRFILMS -
Michael Pappas
You can transfer your footage to hard disk then pop the memory back into the camera, think of it as a Big buffer.
Anyway as an Editor i have to say i welcome more disciplined shooting we get far too much footage these days.
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Nick,
[NICK B] “You can transfer your footage to hard disk then pop the memory back into the camera, think of it as a Big buffer.”
Apologies to whomever brought this up originally for my not remembering who, but for doco work of any sort this is a non starter. It’s gonna be impossible to do without at least a little jiggle, thus the system must have an hard drive recording option, very preferably on-board like the JVC. I feel almost certain that this will be the case even though it ups the ante by probably a couple-a-grand. Besides all these new 1/3″ camcorders are too front heavy anyhow. They need a hard drive on the back.
Ron Shook
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[Jan Crittenden] “The only problem with this Michael is that the Firestore cannot capture DVCPRO HD. “
Sure it could if you wanted it to, but then no one would want to use P2 so its never going to happen, which is a shame as it is by far the most popular non tape ‘media’ around.
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[Guy Barwood] “Sure it could if you wanted it to, but then no one would want to use P2 so its never going to happen”
Guy,
I’m sure Jan will correct me if I”m wrong, but Panasonic is not stopping anyone from making alternative recording options. If FireStore wants to offer an external drive which can record DVCProHD, then they very well may.It’s just a matter of demand…which as of yet is unclear seeing as the camera has not even been officially announced, much less released.
I really hope everyone can hold on until NAB, as I’m pretty sure Panasonic has thought of all these concerns beforehand, and will have options to show off.
Luis Caffesse
Studio 3 Productions, Inc.
Austin, Texas -
The way i look at it on my $10k budget i will spend say $6000 on the camera $3000 on memory and about $1000 on a P2 hard disk drive.
You have to try to make things work for you and since i have to edit i realy realy want rid of tape and if it saves me hours of digitizing i will pay the extra few $k of my edit budget to buy more memory since i dont need a deck.
Sure there are situations where tape is better but the Panasonic offers the most future proof ‘no moving parts’ camera solution, Panasonic have a very hot product here if they play their card right the could take a big market share away from Sony.
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The sole advantage of tape is cost.
The sole disadvantage of P2 is cost. -
[mishka] “The sole advantage of tape is cost.
The sole disadvantage of P2 is cost.”Well said.
And I would add that the disadvantages of tape are not going to go away.
The disadvantage (cost) of P2 will definitely go away.Luis Caffesse
Studio 3 Productions, Inc.
Austin, Texas
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