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ownership of footage
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There’s a little more on all this here.
https://www.a-p-a.net/docs/copyright_law.pdf
Question:
If a producer, a director, a lighting cameraman, a camera operator, a focus puller, a sound recordist, a key grip and artists all contribute to a shot, who is its “author” ..? -
[Mike_S] “Question:
If a producer, a director, a lighting cameraman, a camera operator, a focus puller, a sound recordist, a key grip and artists all contribute to a shot, who is its “author” ..?”Add to that an actor and a writer, and you get a really big mess. I think the best advice here is to make sure that it’s all laid out in the contract very specifically.
That being said, what are you going to do with all this footage you own when everything can be uploaded, downloaded, mashed up, and sampled? Legally if you own it you control everything but PRACTICALLY what control do you really have. Billion dollar corporations can’t keep a lid on their own stuff. As a small business person with fewer resources, what can you do if someone “steals” your property? My practical (not legal) advice is to concentrate on your SERVICE and forget about the intellectual property. It’s too much of a hassle with very little return potential.
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Eric Susch
http://www.LetsKnit2gether.com
http://www.ElectronicSprocket.com -
Steve,
Was your experience in Arizona a federal or state case? One lawyer told me that suing over copyright violation is a federal case and takes federal dollars, federal lawyers, etc.
She said that a person should create a contract in which copyright is transferred because you can then sue for “breech of contract” which is easier/cheaper to pursue because it takes only state dollars, state lawyers, etc. And once/if you win at a state level, you then you can go on to the federal level and sue for more money over copyright violation.Make sense to you?
Bruce
Bruce Bennett,
Bennett Marketing & Media Production, LLC – http://www.bmmp.com -
[Eric Susch] “My practical (not legal) advice is to concentrate on your SERVICE and forget about the intellectual property. It’s too much of a hassle with very little return potential.”
I had a 1099 job with federal clients for a few years. My understanding (right or wrong) was that they owned the raw footage, with an additional twist: since it was paid for by taxpayer dollars, anyone who wanted the footage for any reason, including commercial reuse, could have it. I’d get to charge reasonable fees for duplication and tape stock, but it was theirs for the asking.
Again, maybe right, maybe wrong, but my it was my understanding…which made it crystal clear from day one that, after I got paid to shoot it, my footage was worth exactly zero to me.
So after the first 2 years, the style changed from run-and-gun, just-in-time newsy stuff to slow, documentary style, fit for reuse. I asked for more money, which triggered a new request for bids. I lost the gig, and a youngster started using the footage I’d shot along with his new stuff.
Until HE lost the gig a few months later.
There were a number of reasons, but the biggest was service. The client came back and said, “I’m using the word ‘grovel’ here.” They had kind of known that my value was greater than my shooting and editing, but they had no idea how much. It turned out to be a pretty good thing all around.
It was a hard thing to wrap my head around, but I really did come to place zero value on the *things* that I made after I’d been paid for them. Payment for *things* is retail, and we’ve seen that any goofball with a camera and a box of cheap software can get into the retail business, where slashing prices is the norm.
My value was my ability to help clients understand their goals more clearly than they had before they started working with me, turn those goals into plans, and execute the plans with flair. That is, my own goal was style rather than art. Art was beyond my reach. 🙂
PS. I made the elements in my comps available to client and their new boy. Most of it was footage I’d shot on their dime anyway. But the “recipes” were proprietary. I wouldn’t even tell them that I used After Effects, much less let them see the project files. Even if that wasn’t entirely my legal right, I’d been easy enough with the rest that they didn’t bother to ask twice.
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I believe that you are 100% correct.
The question from earlier about who owns it when a team did it: The photographer. The word videographer does not exist at the federal level and usually not at the state level either. When we were filling out papers to become a resource for the state a few years back, the catagories were 16mm film and 35 mm film. “Video” did not even exist. We spent a year getting this changed. My tenecious wife had her claws in the state and wasn’t letting go.
As for another comment from earlier: Your copyright is worth almost nothing, once the client has PAID you. However, if someone else got possession of your tapes, you could stop them from using them. All you need to do is hire a lawyer and file a complaint. Got $10K laying around with no purpose?
Yes, if you’re interested in protecting your rights and whatever else, work up a contract right now.
And, because we all belong to this forum, why don’t we do exactly that? We could collectively come up with a contract that is good and fair for both sides. Does anyone have such a monster? All of ours have been one offs that were written for a particular client. We belong to MCA-I and I’ll bet that we’ve got something prewritten.
Steve Wargo
Tempe, Arizona
It’s a dry heat!Sony HDCAM F-900 & HDW-2000/1 deck
5 Final Cut Pro systems
Sony HVR-M25 HDV deck -
Bruce
I saw that you are also an MCA-I member. Do you know Lou Hunt? She is from Madison and does a lot of our voice work.
I was in Milwaukee and Oshkosh last week shooting footage for an aviation TV show that we’re trying to get off the ground. (Pun pun pun!)
I was in Madison in ’73 or so for a big motorcycle race on the 4th of July or Labor Day. It’s all a bit foggy after all these years and all those party beverages.
Steve Wargo
Tempe, Arizona
It’s a dry heat!Sony HDCAM F-900 & HDW-2000/1 deck
5 Final Cut Pro systems
Sony HVR-M25 HDV deck -
[Steve Wargo] ” saw that you are also an MCA-I member. Do you know Lou Hunt? She is from Madison and does a lot of our voice work.
Yep, I’ve been a member of ITVA/MCA-I for about 15 years now. We have a pretty strong and cool chapter. Steve Tingly from American Family Insurance was even the national President.
Don’t know Lou Hunt. I’m sure the guys at Concept or Haggar know her. I’ll ask for some demos.I was in Milwaukee and Oshkosh last week shooting footage for an aviation TV show that we’re trying to get off the ground. (Pun pun pun!)
Big thing in Oshkosh. So many planes that they tend to collide and crash from time to time.
I was in Madison in ’73 or so for a big motorcycle race on the 4th of July or Labor Day. It’s all a bit foggy after all these years and all those party beverages.”
I graduated from Madison in 1990. I love Madison (even with the sub zero temps). I’ve heard lots of stories about the 70s. Are you sure it was the beverages that made it all foggy? 🙂
Email me at bruce@bmmp.com
Bruce
Bruce Bennett,
Bennett Marketing & Media Production, LLC – http://www.bmmp.com -
Electric wine would be the beverage of memory. It as a crazy weekend and we had a group of over 1000 that hit the campground that evening. The sheriff and the mayor came to ask if we could spare the town from the usual rape and pillage that they had seen in movies like “The Wild One”. We had no intention of going into their little town. They were safe. At least from us.
Steve Wargo
Tempe, Arizona
It’s a dry heat!Sony HDCAM F-900 & HDW-2000/1 deck
5 Final Cut Pro systems
Sony HVR-M25 HDV deck -
Brendan,
What’s with the “beenyweenies” thing? Everytime I see that I die laughing. I am laughing like hell, right now and will continue to do so for some time.
Steve Wargo
Tempe, Arizona
It’s a dry heat!Sony HDCAM F-900 & HDW-2000/1 deck
5 Final Cut Pro systems
Sony HVR-M25 HDV deck -
Hey sorry for the lag in reply, was out of town. The screen name dates back many, many years when I was signing up for my first internet account ever. I had tried 5,000 different names, and none of them worked no matter how ridiculous. Beenyweenies eventually popped into my head (but who knows why) and it worked. I’ve been using it ever since for my SN.
Brendan Coots
Splitvision Digital
http://www.splitvisiondigital.com
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