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OTish: Adobe Release
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[Andrew Kimery] “[Herb Sevush] “All too true, however what’s even slower than Colorista’s keyer is the LCS having no keyer at all. No keyer, no secondaries, no eyedropper, no thank you.”
Also good to know. Sometimes a primary is all I need though. Looking forward to playing with things once my current gig wraps up.”
Not having secondary control isn’t entirely correct. Look at the color wheel in this image. The Hue/Sat wheel let’s you pull specific colors in a very non-symmetrical manner. This is way cleaner than an HSL keyer. I’ve been doing a lot of Resolve work lately. The more I use it, the less I use qualifying keys, because there are other, cleaner and better tools to accomplish the same results. Same here. It’s also the same reason Color Finale opted for vector controls instead of HSL keying.
– Oliver
Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com -
[Walter Soyka] “In every previous version of After Effects, the UI and the renderer were linked. One working blocked the other. The bulk of the work evident in 13.5 is the separation of the UI and the renderer. I don’t think any other meaningful acceleration could have happened without taking this first major step — redesigning the fundamental After Effects architecture without breaking everything else.”
I understand, and I know you’re pscyhed about it. Your enthusiasm keeps me enthused, and I know it’s hard work, but it only took a year to functionally remove all the weird shit that had been built up with the cache, and yes, a lot of it is gone already. That’s what I mean by gone, and been replaced by other hard work.
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Hi guys, I have been busy and have taken on an additional role at Adobe so not as active recently. Still trying to jump in when I can. I will just take Jeremy’s reply as typical in this thread (or at least part of it). Hope to jump in more soon.
[Jeremy Garchow] “I just want a faster Ae, is that so wrong? :)”
Well, wish fulfilled. This version of AE is faster in the key sense of disconnecting the UI and Render threads. you will find that you can add elements, effects, tweak parameters to a layer while the comp is previewing and it won’t stop. To me this is absolutely huge. They’re working on more too.
[Jeremy Garchow] “I see “CC 2015” right next to “CC 2014″, I see the big marketing blitz, I see the some of the features touted months ago, and……..yeah.”
We delivered what we showed at NAB, is that so wrong? I guess you would have preferred that we showed less and then surprised you? It’s like sneaking into to your parent’s closet and peeking at the Christmas gifts before Christmas? Well, if this is the penalty of Adobe being transparent and communicative, then I will choose it EVERY…SINGLE…TIME…
Dennis
Adobe guy -
Another response more for the general thread…
[Herb Sevush] “All too true, however what’s even slower than Colorista’s keyer is the LCS having no keyer at all. No keyer, no secondaries, no eyedropper, no thank you.”
Herb, you are so quotable…thank you! 😉
There is the Hue Saturation Curve control which does secondary type functions as someone else has pointed out.
The goal of the Lumetri Color workflow/effect is to bring a large part of the power of Speedgrade and make it more accessible to a wider range of users. I’ve used the comparison of making Color more inviting via Lightroom. For me the great experience of Lightroom, is that I start twiddling knobs and see results – often good results. It is inviting and dare I say, fun.
For a lot of people color grading/correcting is not fun, not intuitive and they don’t get the results they’re looking for easily. This is what we’ve attempted to fix with the Lumetri Color Effect.
For a lot of people this is going to be a great tool that helps them get farther in creating good content via color shaping than previously. It will hopefully be fun and instructive at the same time.
For some of the people here who are saying it needs this or that, I hear you but I would point you back to your tool of choice and in our case, Speedgrade where you have the full range (which is extremely extensive) of tools at your disposal.
For advanced users, this is another tool in the toolbox – one of a choice of tools. For other users, this will be a great tool that hopefully is revelatory.
My .2 (or 20) cents,
Dennis – Adobe guy -
[Oliver Peters] “Not having secondary control isn’t entirely correct. Look at the color wheel in this image. The Hue/Sat wheel let’s you pull specific colors in a very non-symmetrical manner. This is way cleaner than an HSL keyer. I’ve been doing a lot of Resolve work lately.”
I’m not close to your proficiency in color grading, so I’ll take your word for it, but I have to tell you I don’t see how it can be as fast as using a selector to identify the HSL you want to effect as a starting point.
What if I want to make this change only inside a certain area of a shot, while still making a Global change to the entirety of the clip, which is quite common for me. In Colorista I can isolate this effect with an internal mask – with the LCS I can mask the entire effect, but not one part of the effect.
I’m not saying the LCS isn’t a good tool to have, I’m saying that for me, at this point, I’m still going to want Colorista in my tool kit.
Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
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nothin’ attached to nothin’
“Deciding the spine is the process of editing” F. Bieberkopf -
[Dennis Radeke] “For advanced users, this is another tool in the toolbox – one of a choice of tools. For other users, this will be a great tool that hopefully is revelatory.”
I might have overstated my disappointment due to the “game changer” praise that followed it’s announcement. I was hoping that it would end my need for Colorista, which is a slow PITA to use that always requires rendering. The LCS seems very powerful and good for what it does, it just doesn’t do all I need. Maybe some day it will.
Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
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nothin’ attached to nothin’
“Deciding the spine is the process of editing” F. Bieberkopf -
[Herb Sevush] “What if I want to make this change only inside a certain area of a shot, while still making a Global change to the entirety of the clip, which is quite common for me. In Colorista I can isolate this effect with an internal mask – with the LCS I can mask the entire effect, but not one part of the effect.”
The Lumetri Hue/Sat wheel works the same as the HSL wheels in Colorista. A key can be useful, but often does not yield clean results, because color can rarely be so cleanly isolated without keying or color contamination artifacts. For example, if I want to lower the saturation of a bright red dress, I can do that just as easily with the HSL wheels as with a key, but often the key edges aren’t as clean as one would like.
BTW, I am comparing Colorista III, which no longer includes internal masking. Therefore, you can only mask the whole filter – so the same with Colorista III as with Lumetri.
Also I notice the playback performance is a lot less taxing with the Lumetri effect than with Colorista III.
However, the issue is more important for users who do not own third-party plug-in effects. Lumetri gives them an extremely powerful tool without spending extra cash. I, for one, find this a great step forward, as I’ve always disliked the built-in Premiere Pro correctors up until now.
– Oliver
Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com -
[Oliver Peters] ” A key can be useful, but often does not yield clean results, because color can rarely be so cleanly isolated without keying or color contamination artifacts. For example, if I want to lower the saturation of a bright red dress, I can do that just as easily with the HSL wheels as with a key, but often the key edges aren’t as clean as one would like.”
Agree, but as always, the devil is in the details. In my case I’m dealing with cooking food and often I’ll need to brighten a stew – brown meat, orange carrots, green parsley – that’s cooking at the bottom of a deep pan, without blowing out anything else. No problem, put a circle mask on the bottom of the pan, bring up the mids and highs, and I’m done. But now the cook brings his light brown wood spatula loaded with bright yellow butter into the pan – I need to keep this from blowing out while still brightening the stew. With Colorista II I add an excluding key for the spatula and butter to the circle mask in the secondary corrector. The edges of the key are kept very soft which helps hide the fact that’s it’s not all that accurate but the spatula is moving pretty fast so it’s not too obvious. Meanwhile I can still have an overall correction in the Colorista primary because the clip I’m correcting was shot on a small overhead camera and I need it to color match the bigger studio cameras. This specific type of correction I might do 20 times in an episode. I could do part of this in the LCS, but the simplicity and portability of having the whole grade as a single effect is lost.
[Oliver Peters] “BTW, I am comparing Colorista III, which no longer includes internal masking. Therefore, you can only mask the whole filter – so the same with Colorista III as with Lumetri.”
Eliminating the primary and secondary correction areas in the new Colorista III was an act of stupidity that boggles the mind. I foolishly bought the upgrade without testing, assuming it was actually an upgrade. Live and learn … and then delete and re-install. When I talk of Colorista, I talk strictly about Colorista II.
[Oliver Peters] ” I, for one, find this a great step forward, as I’ve always disliked the built-in Premiere Pro correctors up until now.”
It’s a definite major improvement over the PPro correctors. My comments are based, as always, by looking at things through the lens of my own specific workflow.
Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
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nothin’ attached to nothin’
“Deciding the spine is the process of editing” F. Bieberkopf -
[Herb Sevush] “Agree, but as always, the devil is in the details. In my case I’m dealing with cooking food and often I’ll need to brighten a stew…. This specific type of correction I might do 20 times in an episode. I could do part of this in the LCS, but the simplicity and portability of having the whole grade as a single effect is lost.”
I completely understand what you are saying and there are ways to do this without keying, but it does require multiple instances of the filter, plus masks, in all likelihood. This would be true in FCP X, Color, or Resolve, too. Just there, you’d do it with several nodes or rooms.
OTOH, what you are doing could not have been done in Premiere Pro without Colorista I or II (not III). That’s where many power user would bounce out to AE or do it in SG. I presume part of the reason Red Giant changed the masking with Colorista III was to improve performance, given that PProCC2014 (and now CC2015) has built in masking. As does FCPX, too.
– Oliver
Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com -
[Oliver Peters] ” I presume part of the reason Red Giant changed the masking with Colorista III was to improve performance, given that PProCC2014 (and now CC2015) has built in masking. As does FCPX, too.”
Assuming there is a reason, it was a bad reason. What set Colorista apart from all other CC plug-ins was the HSL wheel and the 3 separate correctors. Without those separate correctors and with LCS having it’s own, more advanced HSL wheel, there is no reason to buy Colorista III at all, at least in Ppro 2015.
Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
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nothin’ attached to nothin’
“Deciding the spine is the process of editing” F. Bieberkopf
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