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OTish: Adobe Release
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[Walter Soyka] “The fact that you’re disappointed in this release is exactly why I wonder if this kind of development could realistically be planned under CS.”
Why couldn’t it? The only things different would be marketing, licensing and public transparency. What does that have to do with development timelines?
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David Lawrence
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[David Lawrence] “Why couldn’t it? The only things different would be marketing, licensing and public transparency. What does that have to do with development timelines?”
Because the majority of the After Effects team has been working for over a year to deliver v13.5, and Jeremy “Mckayla” Garchow is unimpressed.
When you sell what you develop, you develop what you can sell. CS created perverse incentives for product managers to focus on what’s doable in the short term at the expense of the long term. CC is a much longer game.
Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
@keenlive | RenderBreak [blog] | Profile [LinkedIn] -
[Walter Soyka] “The fact that you’re disappointed in this release is exactly why I wonder if this kind of development could realistically be planned under CS.
“It seems like at some point, management would have had to make the call to stay relevant and engineers would have to move mountains. They probably would have released it when it was ready to be a feature to collect the revenue.
And going back to the global cache and all those refinements, that’s what I was talking about all that hard development time is pretty much cashed. Pun intended.
Anyway, I meant it when I said I’m not on a hunt. Perhaps I should stop reading those leg showing Adobe blogs and treat CC like CS. Every year around NAB there’ll be some announcements and things will move along in a mostly a yearly cycle, and anytime between Apr and June we will download what Adobe had announced in April.
And reset parameters would be nice on the Lumetri panel so that I don’t have to use two panels to modify one parameter. And “open all” would be nice so we don’t have to constantly click through the interface. It is very Adobe like though. Great ideas, hard work, weird execution.
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[Walter Soyka] “When you sell what you develop, so you develop what you can sell. CS created perverse incentives for product managers to focus on what’s doable in the short term at the expense of the long term. CC is a much longer game.”
I disagree. The market created the incentive for Adobe to up their NLE game and deliver Premiere CS6.
Now that they’re free of the CS model, what are the perverse incentives forcing them to do yearly full install releases, complete with big marketing features?
I agree it’s a long game btw, I just don’t think it’ll play out the way Adobe management and their Wall Street cronies expect.
_______________________
David Lawrence
art~media~design~research
propaganda.com
publicmattersgroup.com
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[Jeremy Garchow] “It seems like at some point, management would have had to make the call to stay relevant and engineers would have to move mountains. They probably would have released it when it was ready to be a feature to collect the revenue. “
See Avid DS, FCP7, Shake (which was being outclassed by Nuke before its EOL), XSI.
See anyone BMD has bought.
See Joel Spolsky, Things You Should Never Do, Part I [link].
[Jeremy Garchow] “And going back to the global cache and all those refinements, that’s what I was talking about all that hard development time is pretty much cashed. Pun intended. “
The GPC is still there. The “cache in the background” feature is not currently with us, but the cache is still constantly written/read during previews.
[Jeremy Garchow] “Every year around NAB there’ll be some announcements and things will move along in a mostly a yearly cycle, and anytime between Apr and June we will download what Adobe had announced in April.”
And at one or two other points during the year, other features will be released instead of being held until the following June.
[Jeremy Garchow] “It is very Adobe like though. Great ideas, hard work, weird execution.”
That’s a criticism I’d agree with. Sometimes it seems like good features are introduced, but then don’t get the iterations they deserve. That’s part of why I’m glad to see them coming back to something that has desperately needed attention for a long, long time.
Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
@keenlive | RenderBreak [blog] | Profile [LinkedIn] -
[Jeremy Garchow] “Every year around NAB there’ll be some announcements and things will move along in a mostly a yearly cycle, and anytime between Apr and June we will download what Adobe had announced in April. “
Same as it ever was… except now with great new feature that your software stops working if you ever stop paying Adobe! 😉
https://youtu.be/I1wg1DNHbNU?t=1m41s
_______________________
David Lawrence
art~media~design~research
propaganda.com
publicmattersgroup.com
https://lnkd.in/Cfz92F
facebook.com/dlawrence
twitter.com/dhl
vimeo.com/dlawrence/albums -
[Walter Soyka] “Because the majority of the After Effects team has been working for over a year to deliver v13.5, and Jeremy “Mckayla” Garchow is unimpressed.
“That was good, but I see myself more like this:
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[Andrew Kimery] “how often do companies gut an app and rebuild it? Apple did it with FCP7 to FCP X, but they have a side business selling hardware to help make ends meet. “
No, they did from FCP FIVE to FCPX.
Feel free to go back through the COW archives to satisfy yourself on this, but I’m telling ya that the last time that FCP users came out of NAB super happy was in 2005, when Apple added multicam.
Coming home from 2007, the reaction was overwhelmingly negative, largely because nobody could figure out what to make out of ProRes just yet. People recognized that it was basically DNxHD, but four years after Avid it, where it didn’t seem to make all that much sense, either.
(Color was introduced, which turned out to be a bigger deal looking back…until it wasn’t…but it was hardly greeted with hosannas on any wide scale, and certainly not much for FCP.)
It wasn’t until people got their hands on AJA Io that ProRes started to become real through the rest of 2007…nothing much from FCP itself…and in 2008, no Apple booth of course, and once again, no real FCP news.
Lather, rinse, repeat in 2009 and 2010.
Please note that none of this is my opinion. It’s right there in the archive.
Lots of amazing camera stuff from those NABs, new storage, DaVinci Resolve in 2010, etc etc, lots of positive energy coming out of the show — but the record is unambiguous. Other than some excitement that AJA whipped up for hardware encoding that others picked up…there were years and years where FCP partisans came back from NAB somewhere between disappointed and angry.
Apart from that 2007 bump, pretty much every year since 2005, which was of course hosanna in the highest.
In retrospect, it’s not that Apple wasn’t doing anything major with FCP from 2005 to 2011. It’s that they were doing something SO major that they couldn’t do it AND keep up the pretense that the future was going to proceed along the same path.
I think you, Andrew, and Aindreas and Walter and others are exactly right, that Adobe’s dust-covered “Open While Under Construction” sign is also the sign that they’re committed to a path that’s neither discontinuous nor held captive to old architecture.
It’s ballsy as hell, and I couldn’t agree more that there’s no way they could realistically pull it off if they had to “market” the idea of “Open While Under Construction” to get discrete upgrade dollars. You really need a predictable revenue stream in order to undertake long-term infrastructure reconstruction on this scale.
Given that Apple’s construction project took something like 6 years, with an outcome that took another couple years of maturity before it as seen as a major step forward by a major part of their previously most enthusiastic enthusiasts, I’d say for Adobe is well ahead of the pace. The very least it’s realistic to say is “so far so good,” even if for any individual user it may not yet be good enough.
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[David Lawrence] “I disagree. The market created the incentive for Adobe to up their NLE game and deliver Premiere CS6.”
Premiere Pro CS6 was an iterative improvement on CS5 and CS5.5, full of easy-to-sell features that look good on the tin.
Ae’s 21 years old. It could have used a new architecture a decade ago. Why do you think it didn’t get that re-design sooner?
[David Lawrence] “Now that they’re free of the CS model, what are the perverse incentives forcing them to do yearly full install releases, complete with big marketing features?”
They’ve chosen a schedule, but isn’t this Ae release (that you would choose to skip because there’s no compelling value for you) the opposite of this “big marketing feature” idea?
Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
@keenlive | RenderBreak [blog] | Profile [LinkedIn] -
[Walter Soyka] “See Avid DS, FCP7, Shake (which was being outclassed by Nuke before its EOL), XSI.
See anyone BMD has bought.
See Joel Spolsky, Things You Should Never Do, Part I [link].”
Are you saying that these programs couldn’t have been updated? Not sure what you mean. Perpetual licensing killed these programs?
[Walter Soyka] “That’s a criticism I’d agree with. Sometimes it seems like good features are introduced, but then don’t get the iterations they deserve. That’s part of why I’m glad to see them coming back to something that has desperately needed attention for a long, long time.
“We will see what happens. We’ll know in April for CC 2016 for Ae v13.0.5 (they actually knock a few version points off because it’s ‘so fast’).
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